3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

AlleeCat

AlleeCat

He's Special
Hi, I'm a new member, 1st post. I've been checking out this forum for a while, very cool site! It made me want to do some mods to my Ibanez RG 170. I have installed a Invader in the bridge, and a pair of Pearly Gates for the middle and neck positions. 3 TS's, 3 on/off/on (for phase switching), and 3 volume pots (500K ). The problem I'm having is somehow the volume pot for the neck pickup is affecting the middle pickup, is this related to grounding? Each pickup goes to the mini switch first ( with the pickup shield going to straight to it''s volume pot), and the ground from the mini switch also going to the same volume pot for ground. All 3 pickups wired the same, then the hot leads going to output jack. Ground is connected from the last pot in line ( from the bridge pickup) to the output jack. Pickup and Control cavaties have been shielded with copper tape. Do I need grounds from each volume pot to the out put jack? Or would that cause more issues?! Any ideas? Also, when I switch the mini switches from off to on and back, I get a "Pop" from the switch, and fixes for that? I really excited about this setup, and can't wait to get it working!! Please Help!! Thanks AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

So let me get a couple things straight

-The phase switches have 3 position in/off/out?

-The bare wire is soldered to the back of the volume pot of each pickup?

-Each toggle is grounded to the back of each volume pot?

-Do you have a wire connecting the other volume pots' ground to the last volume pot's ground, or are you relying on the copper shielding for that?

-Does the hot lead from the pickup connect to the middle lug or the outside lug of the pot? Check each pickup.

-Do you have a multimeter?
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

So let me get a couple things straight

-The phase switches have 3 position in/off/out?

They are 3 position on/off/on DPDT.

-The bare wire is soldered to the back of the volume pot of each pickup?

Yes, it had been at the time of my first post. Yesterday a friend suggested connecting the bare wire form each pickup directly to the ground lug on the output jack. I did so but got no change with the problem.

-Each toggle is grounded to the back of each volume pot?

Yes.

-Do you have a wire connecting the other volume pots' ground to the last volume pot's ground, or are you relying on the copper shielding for that?

I had been relying on the copper shield for that, I thought I would try connecting the other volume pots ground to the last volume pots ground later today.

-Does the hot lead from the pickup connect to the middle lug or the outside lug of the pot? Check each pickup.

Outside lug of each pot.

-Do you have a multimeter?
No, but I could get one.


Thanks for you intrest and reply. I've been trying a few different things, but I'm still not sure want I'm missing.

Has anyone on the board done a mod like this?

3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 on/off/on mini switches, and 3 Volume pots?
Got a diagram?

I've looked at the TS wiring Diagrams on the SD site, but there is nothing quite like what I'm looking to do!!!?

AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Sounds like a variation on the Gibson non-Switchmaster ES-5 circuit.

My interpretation of the OP is that all of the pickups are wired to individual volume pots and then sent along a shared cable to the output jack. In plain English, all of the pickups and their volume pots are wired IN PARALLEL.

For the circuit to operate as intended, the volume pots should be wired rather like those of a Fender Jazz Bass. The PU signal goes to the central lug and leaves via the #1 lug (the one usually used as the input).

One of the problems with DPDT micro switches (even the very best ones) is that there can be some leakage across the internal contacts. This could be enough to allow the volume of one individual pickup to be influenced by the volume pots of the other two pickups even when those PUs are supposedly switched off.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Funkfingers is correct that is what I was trying to deduce myself.

It is starting to sound like a grounding issue you might need to isolate the pots and from the shielding. You can either cut a small are out of the shielding so the metal pot housing doesn't touch, or use some tape and paper. After this connect each pot's ground point together, and then make one connection to the output's ground.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

IMO, the problem is the on/off/on DP3T mini switches.

I used to have a set of DiMarzio Brian May pickups on a Bitsacaster, wired in series through three DP3T on/on/on switches. (That's right, on/on/on.) The "off" aspect of the individual switches was handled by the way in which they were wired rather than the centre position of the mini switches.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Thats possible but IMO its a ground loop issue. Hence why I suggested isolating the conrtols from the shielding via paper (that is what I do). I drew up a diagram to show where each wire needs to go. this is assuming you isolate the controls.

3HumTSPhase.png
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

AlleeCat said:
Do I need grounds from each volume pot to the out put jack?
Click to expand...

Yes.

AlleeCat said:
Also, when I switch the mini switches from off to on and back, I get a "Pop" from the switch. Any fixes for that?
Click to expand...

EITHER - Better quality switches
OR - Individual DPDT on/on switches for the phase inversion and DPDT on/on (or on/off) switches for the PU on/off switches.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Thanks for your detailed responses, Nalo 1022 and Funkfingers. I'm currently working on rewiring following Nalo's diagram and shielding tips!

so, when I switch the mini switches from off to on and back, I get a "Pop" from the switch. Any fixes for that?

EITHER - Better quality switches
OR - Individual DPDT on/on switches for the phase inversion and DPDT on/on (or on/off) switches for the PU on/off switches.
__________________

Well I used DiMarizo switches Funkfingers, but I'm sure something more high end would have been better.Have any specific recommendations?

Thanks for the reponse and suggestions!
I'll report back later..... AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

How loud is the pop. you are going to get at least a little pop when reconnecting both the ground a and hot lead
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

How loud is the pop. you are going to get at least a little pop when reconnecting both the ground a and hot lead

Its a little, I could live with it, I was hoping there might be an easy fix.

Still not finished with rewiring, got busy with the family last night. Will get back to it today, and hopefully be finished this afternoon. Can't wait to take this "Hot Rod" for a spin!!! AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Thinking back, the C&K DP3T switches in my Dimarzio Brian May circuit popped a bit too. The difference is that I only had one volume pot. It was no bother to turn it down to zero, make a PU/phase selection and turn back up again.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Ok I've got things rewired and I followed Nalo's diagram and used thin cardboard on the bottom of the cavity (to insulate the pots and switches from the copper shielding tape). Things are working, but when I back off the volume on the neck or the middle pickups, I get a hum. Also, something that is in the circuit that I failed to mention earlier, is that I have "Treble Bleed" caps on each pot. Is this effecting the resistence to ground and causing the hum? Any suggestions? AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

The treble bleed caps could mess things up by forming a bridge between the common output wire to the jack socket and the grounding lug of any given volume pot whenever it is turned below 9.

Your OP did not specify the magnitude of the effect that operating one volume pot had on the signal from other pickups. If this only seems to remove some of the highest frequencies, the treble bleed cap is the explanation for the original volume loss problem. Removal of the caps is the solution.
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

[QUOTE=Funkfingers;2584509]The treble bleed caps could mess things up by forming a bridge between the common output wire to the jack socket and the grounding lug of any given volume pot whenever it is turned below 9.

Your OP did not specify the magnitude of the effect that operating one volume pot had on the signal from other pickups. If this only seems to remove some of the highest frequencies, the treble bleed cap is the explanation for the original volume loss problem. Removal of the caps is the solution.[/QUOTE]

I removed the caps and it didn't change anything.

I seriously considering eliminating the on/off/on switches for phase reversal.

I'm not sure that I will us them that much. And just going with 3 volume pots.

Do you think the pots will still interact? I mean it seems like it should be simple (Ha Ha!) 1 pickup, 1 volume pot each with no issues!?!

If I went with that setup, any suggestions for proper wiring config?

AlleeCat:eyecrazy:
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

I seriously considering eliminating the on/off/on switches for phase reversal.

I'm not sure that I will us them that much. And just going with 3 volume pots.

Frist let me say "Many Thanks" to Nalo 1022 and Funkfingers!!!!

I discovered that the issue's I had, were related to the noisy preamp
in my son's Fender Champ 112 I was using to test things out!!!

Plugged into my rig, no noise, no hum!

Just the beautiful sounds of a pair of PG's and a Invader!

What a Screamer!!!!

I finally have the config I've always wanted. 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Volumes,
Phase/Series/Parallel/Split On/Off Very Cool!!!
Seymour Duncan pickups rule! And this forum is really a great resource.
Thanks again to the member responses!! I wouldn't have taken no this project, or finished it, without this forum!!!!

Rock and Roll


AlleeCat
 
Re: 3 HB's, 3 TS's, 3 Vol., 3 on/off/on Ground issue?

Lol I usually ask people to check the amp and cables first, and this is why.
 
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