3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

[sepultura]

Hi folks, I'm getting three SD humbuckers as replacements for the stock pickups on my strat. It will be the hot rails SHR-1 at the bridge, the cool rails or little '59 at the mid and the cool rails or little '59 at the neck. I looked at SD's wiring instructions here:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics/3lil_hb_vol_2tones_5way.html

It is very instructive however I'd like to use each pickup in coil split mode specially when using two pickups together, as in position 2 and 4 on the 5-way pickup selector switch. I'm planning to replace all three pots with push/pull pots having DPDT switches to enable coil splitting.

Now each pickup has four leads which are as follows (according to the FAQ):
Green = beginning of adjustable coil
Red = finish of adjustable coil
Black = beginning of stud coil
White = finish of stud coil

If I want to enable the bridge and middle pickups, with both of them using only one coil (split) does it matter which coil of each pickup is used? I mean, can I use the north coil on the bridge pickup and the south coil on the middle pickup and still get hum cancelling? Or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Welcome to the forum.

In all cases, you would take the red/white combo to the center lug of the PP. Then, if you want to split to the coil closest to the neck, take the top lug to that pups black wire. If you want to use the coil that closest to the bridge, take the top lug to ground. (Or the green wire.)

If you wanted to get a little fancy, you could use one tone pot PP to split both the middle and the bridge, then use the other one to select either north/south/inside/outside coils. That way, both the middle/bridge split, and the middle/neck split could be humcancelling.

Artie

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

This is (almost?) exactly what I'm trying to do with my Strat.

I'm going H/H/H, and I want the 5-way to work exactly as a conventional Strat in terms of pickup-selection:

1) Bridge
2) Bridge N + Mid S?
3) Mid
4) Neck S + Mid N?
5) Neck

I'm also going with the three push-pull pots, and I want the same coil-splitting. However, I'm a software developer, (which means I shouldn't be in posession of a soldering iron :jester: ) -- anyone got a wiring diagram for this? In particular, I want positions 2 & 4 to be independant of whether the corresponding push-pull pot is "on" or "off" -- I only intend to use those to split pickups in positions 1, 3, and 5. (In fact, would it be simpler to just have a single switch that split the current active pickup, when there's only one?)

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

There's two ways to do this that are simple, and one more way thats a little more complicated. Unfortunately, you want the complicated one.

Having the pups split in only the #2 and #4 positions is simple. Having the pups split in all five positions is simple. Both of those can be acheived with just one push/pull pot.

But having the pups split only in the #1, #3, and #5 position is a little tricky. Not impossible, just tricky. Let me doodle up a couple things and see what I can come up with.

Artie

Edit: I want to make sure I'm following you correctly. You'ld like normal operation with the pp down, and this when the pp is up:

1. neck split
2. neck & middle (both full-on)
3. middle split
4. middle & bridge (both full-on)
5. bridge split

Is that about right?

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Sorta...when I originally wrote this, I was thinking more along these lines:

1. neck: split when Volume push-pull is up, full when down
2. neck & middle: both always split, regardless of whatever PPs are on/off
3. middle: split when Tone1 push-pull is up, full when down
4. middle & bridge: both always split, regardless of whatever PPs are on/off
5. bridge: split when Tone2 push-pull is up, full when down

So, I was thinking that in positions 1,3, and 5 the switch is a simple pickup-selector, and for each position I'd have the additional option of splitting the selected pickup.

2 & 4 I'm less certain about, although since those will be selecting pairs of pickups, I don't want to have to think about the push-pull pots -- I want these positions to always do the same thing, and I'm open to suggestions. Conventional strat wiring would be the sorta splitting I describe for 2 and 4 above, but I could live with 2 & 4 be as you described ("both full-on").....Which approach is better?

Please keep in mind this will be H/H/H; Neck:Alnico II Pro / Mid:Hot Rails / Bridge: Custom Custom

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

I like a challenge. Let me chew on this for a bit.

Artie

btw - The challenge here is that the #2 and #4 positions of a 5-way "make" a connection, rather than "break" a connection. You want to "break" the split function in those positions. I'm thinking . . .

Edit: Wait a sec . . . I may have mis-read that. You want the splits "on" in the #2 and #4 positions. That might not be too hard.

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Thanks for your help -- I'm actually not trying to be challenging, and I'd love some feedback as to whether this wiring would be useful or just stoopid....

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

It won't be stupid. You gotta try new stuff. I've tried all kinds of oddball things. Just don't be surprised if you undo it all a week later.

(I have.)

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

It looks to me like you can do this fairly easily with a Superswitch, but not with a standard 5-way. You can get real close with a standard 5-way, but not all the way. The middle pup is the problem.

Can you use a Superswitch?

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

No way dude, that wiring will be cool as hell if it works. I'm sure Artie will come up with something ... if he can't do it, no one can!

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Can you use a Superswitch?

Sure, why not: are there physical considerations or is it just a bit more stuff to wire up? :baby:

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

No way dude, that wiring will be cool

Hey, thanks for the encouragement! :beerchug: Any feedback on the pup selections I've made? The patient is a '92 MIA maple-necked Strat in urgent need of a tone transplant!

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Sure, why not: are there physical considerations or is it just a bit more stuff to wire up? :baby:

Mainly, I was thinking along monetary lines. It won't be hard to wire up, and it should fit.

btw - You only need one push/pull to get all those functions. The pickup thats split will be controlled by the Superswitch. The PP just selects either of two 5-way "modes".

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

The PP just selects either of two 5-way "modes".

Interesting -- I think I see where you're headed, although I'm not sure I like that better. Having a dedicated split control for each pickup let's me configure things for a given song, so each pup would be split appropriately. My interpretation of what you're saying is that I'll lose that ability.....

Why can't I just let the push-pull for each pup select whether it's split, and then send that onto the 5-way switch to select which pups are active? After that, the only wrinkle is that 2 & 4 would ignore the push-pull signal, and would just sorta be "hardwired"....

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Yeah, sometimes I have a bad habit of "improving" peoples designs when they knew exactly what they wanted to begin with. :blackeye:

I think this does what you want:

Don't fire up the soldering iron 'til tomorrow, though. It looks ok to me, but sometimes I catch a little "gotcha" the next morning.
If anything in that diagram doesn't make sense to you, I can elaborate on it too. (The blue box is the Superswitch.)

That will give you split operation all the time in positions #2 and #4, and then you have control over positions #1, #3, and #5 with the pp's. #2 and #4 will be hum cancelling.

Artie

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Don't fire up the soldering iron 'til tomorrow

Rats! Already did, and had an awkward few moments until I realized I couldn't come up with anything, er, um, constructive to do with a hot iron.... :wave:

Don't worry about elaborating just yet; I'll study it and make sure I ask only profound(ly) stoopid questions..... I gotta figure out exactly what this means for the tone controls and so forth -- I'm totally new at this stuff. :baby:

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

I've noticed one little thing. It isn't a problem per se, but might save you some unneccessary soldering. See where the middle black wire connects to three terminals on top? Since you'll have the #2 and #4 positions hardwired "split", you don't need to make those two connections on either side of the middle black wire. Just connect to the middle (#3) terminal. Furthermore, you can just bring the middle pup red/white wires up to those two terminals now, and skip wiring up the whole lower-right quadrant of that switch.

I can post a modified diagram tonight.

Artie

 

[aerial7]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Okay, I understand the mods you've suggested.... I think the only thing that's not clear to me is how this diagram gives me n/m/b split according to the corresponding push-pull pot in positions 1,3, and 5. The push-pull for Middle has me especially torqued about the head.... But I trust you....

About the only question I have is how do I verify this while I'm wiring it up?

Oh, and if could kindly tell me where the tone & volume pots fit into your sketch, I think I could take it from there....

Thanks for your time on this! I look forward to wiring it up and letting people know whether it works as well as I hope....

Oh, one other thing: Capacitor recommendations?

 

[chill]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

the only thing that's not clear to me is how this diagram gives me n/m/b split according to the corresponding push-pull pot in positions 1,3, and 5.

In 1, 3, and 5, the red/ white connection to ground (or to output for the middle) is controlled by the push/pull switches, while in positions 2 and 4, they are controlled by the superswitch and the push/pull switching does not matter.

The push-pull for Middle has me especially torqued about the head....

I believe Artie used the middle's "lower" coil instead of the "upper" coil in the split so that you will have humbucking split positions.

Oh, and if could kindly tell me where the tone & volume pots fit into your sketch, I think I could take it from there....

If you move the middle pup black lead to only the middle lug, you can move it to the upper left pole in the diagram, which will allow you to use the upper right pole for tone pot switching.

 

[Artie]

Re: 3 mini-humbuckers and coil splitting.

Edit: Pic modified to include twin tone controls. Explanation in last post.

Chill explained it perfectly.

Here's the modified drawing, though:

Artie