3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

[DonLduk]

Hi. I know this probably has been asked many many times. I read all I could find with the search but I cant still find and answer to my question:

I have a floyd rose guitar (LTD V-350). It had 3 springs with 9s strings, and it worked great. Then I changed to the 10s and kept the 3 springs. If I recall, the guitar's tuning would depend on floyd abuse... not so stable, but aceptable, just enough.

I took it to a tech for maintance, and he (without telling me) put in a 4th spring. I havent retuned since then (2 months?). Its perfect now. It is tighter yes, but i's all right for double stops, doesnt go flat so easily while doing palm mutes, etc... But, the only problem is that I cant make certain effect with the floyd which consits on hitting the bar with a slap and then it will all vibrate and make this great sound. It just doesnt work. Im thinking it has more to do with how the bar attaches to the bridge rather than how tight the floyd is. You see, if I screw in the bar very tight and the try to get the effect, it wont do nothing. If I loose the screw of the bar a little bit and do the slapping, the bar vibrates the way I want it, but that vibration doesnt affect the bridge at all, therefore the effect doesnt happen.

ok, my question are two actually:
1)I didnt get to try the slap effect with 3 springs. If I change it back to 3 springs, you think the slap will sound? Or do I have to change the way the bar screws in the bridge (to a click in, or a the other type of screw?)

2)Someone once said (a friend) that the tech told him that if the tunning is unstable (like, it goes flat after floyd use) then adding another spring is the sollution to that. Is that true? so Im better off with 4 springs?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mind_transplant]

Re: 3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

I'm assuming that you're talking about getting your trem to flutter/warble when you talk about slapping the bar. If so than yes, having fewer springs will give you better flutter (by better I'm assuming wider in terms of pitch variation, and longer in terms of time) but that doesn't mean pulling a spring will nevessarily give you intense flutter. Technique aside, the two most important aspects are having your trem floating correctly, and having the arm connect properly to the bridge. If your trem isn't floating in neutral position you'll probably find that while you can get the trem to flutter, it will be a very short flutter.

As for the arm, this is a whole other story. It is essential that you remove any play in the arm socket, so that it becomes 'one' with the trem, so to speak. I'm partial to the Schaller arms with the screw down collar, as you can remove what little play they have in them with some teflon tape and nail polish.

As for using more springs, it makes the trem stiffer and certainly helps with double-stop bends, but I use 2 springs with 9's and have no tuning problems...

 

[Zerberus]

Re: 3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

.....
ok, my question are two actually:
1)I didnt get to try the slap effect with 3 springs. If I change it back to 3 springs, you think the slap will sound? Or do I have to change the way the bar screws in the bridge (to a click in, or a the other type of screw?)

The "flutter" effect you´re trying to achieve becomes harder and harder the more springs you add ad stated above. Having a more stable bar/plate connection can help, but isn´t essential.

2)Someone once said (a friend) that the tech told him that if the tunning is unstable (like, it goes flat after floyd use) then adding another spring is the sollution to that. Is that true? so Im better off with 4 springs?

Thanks in advance.

BS.. this is a setup issue. The only time that adding a spring is the solution is

A. The strings are so heavy they dictate 4 or more strings (common on heavier that 11s)

b. The player doesn´t like the feel and would prefer it to be stiffer.

Seriously, if I brought a Guitar away with atuning issue and the tech added a spring to the trem it would be the last time I went there, and I´d be pissed as hell about him ****ing with the general setup instead of doing the job that was assigned to him. If a tech can´t listen to what the customer wants, then he shouldn´t be a tech ... ANd any tech that says something like that has already lost

If you add a fourth spring, all you´re doing is making the tensing increase /decrease from using the bar faster. There´s still the same amount of tension (otherwise the bridge would rest at an awkward angle), so it´s nonsense from a physics standpoint as well...

 

[Tru_Slice]

Re: 3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

:sigh:

You would think that with all the success and money Floyd Rose made in the 80's, they would invent an easier way to maintain these things.

Really, why haven't they yet?

 

[DonLduk]

Re: 3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

well thanks for the replys. I agree with most that was said.

I also thought it was nonsense that adding another spring would solve tuning stuff. Coincidentialy, it did, but im guessing it was the tech that just set up the guitar right, and out of pure instict, added the 4th spring. Dont blame him since his probably the greatest guy around the city to do that (and the only one i'd take my guitar to). Ive been perfectly tuned since I got the guitar back from him.

Next time ill ask him to remove the 4th spring since the bridge its way to tight, and ask him to set it up even more perfectly.

One more question:
1) does the number of springs increase sustain?
I would think it wont make a difference.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: 3 springs vs 4 springs floyd and slapping effect.

....
One more question:
1) does the number of springs increase sustain?
I would think it wont make a difference.

I may be misleading myself but I think it may well tighten the tone up a bit by improving the transfer to the body via the claw... it feels tighter.... but I don´t think there´s a noticable improvement in sustain.