4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

[esqueleto.23]

Alright. Was planning to ask this in stages so it wouldn’t get muddled, but I guess it’s good to get it all out there to see if it’s totally crazy or actually workable. I’m hoping for the second!

What I really want to do is create something like the photo below, with 4 pickups using 2 separate circuits - one circuit for the 2 humbuckers with a three way switch, then another for the single coils with a 5-way switch (hopefully with the bridge humbucker in split coil mode as the ‘3rd single coil’). I understand that the humbucker split will not sound like a true single coil, but it might give some interesting tones. My idea was to have a 2-way switch that switches from one circuit to the other...so adding two new switches, and probably another pot...so a master volume and tone with 250k pots for the single coil circuit, and a master volume and tone with 500k pots for the humbucking circuit.

Might be a bit of a crazy idea, but I really like the distinct sounds of humbuckers and single coil pickups, but ideally could have the full versatility of both in one epic guitar. My original idea was to get an HSS, but I feel that would be much less versatile than this idea of a Paulocaster. So instead of having two guitars, I could have one and really splash out for a great neck, bridge, etc.

I'm just hoping that the circuitry would all work out. My main concern is using the humbucker split coil in the single coil circuit…not sure if that would work out in terms of the wiring and so on. More specifically, with the black and green wires in use for the humbucker circuit, would the red and/or white wires soldered to the selector switch and/or volume pot create a usable split coil pickup? And how would one do this exactly?

And also I don't know about the two-way switch...if such a thing would be possible.

I guess part of my problem is I don't know what each of the wires does. My understanding is that the black is the 'hot' wire (that carries the main signal from the pickup?), that normally goes to the selector switch. The bare is the ground, which goes to the back of the volume pot. I know that the green wire normally goes to the back of the volume pot, but I don't quite know why and what it is. And I know that the white and red wire are the coil tap wires, but I don't know what each of them are.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Yes. A four pickup Stratocaster circuit is possible.

Whether coils, spaced apart at the distances shown in the photograph, will produce the sounds associated with a traditional SSS Stratocaster is another matter.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Probably the easiest way to achieve what you want is with 4 mini-toggles.

The humbuckers could have:
series/off/split OR
series/off/parallel

The singles could have:
on/off OR
on/off/phase

The controls could have:
vol/tone/tone OR
vol/vol/tone OR
vol/treble/bass

 

[Brandenburg]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

was thinking you could wire those 2 singles into a pseudo-humbucker as well.. hmm i might try some ideas latter..

soime explanations
in simplest terms .. a humbucker is 2 coils with one being wound the opposite of the other.. each coil has 2 wires. A start and a finish for each coil. Seymour duncan color codes is Black for north start(+),white for north finish(-),red for south finish(+), and green for south start(-).. So when you wire up a 'pup normally with no mods, it will have both coils in series or black (+)(white(-) & red(+)) green (-) or + - + -.. Now if wire up a 'pup in parallel , the wiring will be + + - - or black and red (+),white and green (-). The same thing applies when you are making a pickup in series or parallel with another

If you split a humbucker all you are doing is grounding out one coil of the humbucker.. Which lead you choose to use as you hot/signal and which ones you ground will determine which coil remains active.. Take note that splitting is not the same as coil tapping. Coil tapping refers to single coils even though you could in theory wind a humbucker with coil taps. Tapping is much like how a transformer is tapped. You insert a lead somewhere in the winding to give you half the winds at the very simplest terms.. Id have to do some reading so I could give you a better explanation..

now for out of phase
when you set a humbucker for out of phase operation. All you are doing is sending the hot to ground and the ground to hot OR black will now be ground and green will be signal. Now, to get an out of phase sound, you must have one 'pup in phase as well so that the out of phase pickup and the in phase pickup will cancel out some frequencies

 

[Juanhanglo]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

I am working on a schematic to have a standard 3single coil setup with 2 single coil sized humbuckers just inside the bridge and neck coils (would sorta look like an HSH setup with a slanted bridge pickup).

I am using a super switch and an s1 switch to switch between:

-Standard strat singles

And

- ibanez 2 humbucker 5 way switching

I am gathering parts right now.

The only unknown is whether the humbucker's close proximity to the single coils will affect their sound.

You could do something similar with a super switch to eliminate the 3 way. Just wire it to duplicate the humbuckers in positions 1/2 , and 4/5. Use 3 for both humbuckers. The only downside is the limited choices for the smaller humbuckers.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Yes. A four pickup Stratocaster circuit is possible.

Whether coils, spaced apart at the distances shown in the photograph, will produce the sounds associated with a traditional SSS Stratocaster is another matter.

When you jam a lot of PU's close together, magnetic field overlap can be an issue, along with where they sit under string nodes. That's partly why HHH guitars don't sound as good as most people expect them to, and why they never became popular (6 coils packed like sardines). I'd go with an HSH configuration, and wire the HB's for coil cut, so that you could pair them up with each other and the middle SC.

That would give you 7 HB options:
- bridge HB
- neck HB
- both HB's
- bridge HB + neck SC
- neck HB + bridge SC
- bridge HB + middle SC
- neck HB + middle SC

and 6 SC options:
- bridge SC
- neck SC
- middle SC
- bridge SC + neck SC
- bridge SC + middle SC
- neck SC + middle SC

I think this is much more versatile than a 4 PU guitar.

 

[esqueleto.23]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

When you jam a lot of PU's close together, magnetic field overlap can be an issue, along with where they sit under string nodes. That's partly why HHH guitars don't sound as good as most people expect them to, and why they never became popular (6 coils packed like sardines). I'd go with an HSH configuration, and wire the HB's for coil cut, so that you could pair them up with each other and the middle SC.

That would give you 7 HB options:
- bridge HB
- neck HB
- both HB's
- bridge HB + neck SC
- neck HB + bridge SC
- bridge HB + middle SC
- neck HB + middle SC

and 6 SC options:
- bridge SC
- neck SC
- middle SC
- bridge SC + neck SC
- bridge SC + middle SC
- neck SC + middle SC

I think this is much more versatile than a 4 PU guitar.

That's really interesting. Never thought about the magnetic fields overlapping.

I like the HSH idea. But it couldn't be wired to have all of those combinations, could it? I imagine I'd have to choose which ones I'd want. How would you go about getting the most switchable options on such a guitar? I imagine multiple switches(?). And what did you mean by coil cut? (Just another term for split coil?)

Thanks a lot for the responses...this is super helpful!

Also, another question...sorry for the ignorance...when you split the coils of a humbucker, do you have to choose which coil will be the 'single'? I'm thinking of a 59/custom for the bridge humbucker, and it would be interesting to pair both the custom and also the 59 (separately) with the split neck and middle single. But not sure if something like this would be possible...

 

[marcello252]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

one question: why so much hate?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

I really like the distinct sounds of humbuckers and single coil pickups, but ideally could have the full versatility of both in one epic guitar.

you can do the wiring, but it will never be two guitars in one.
HUmbuckers and single coils are so very different, from magnet shape to configuration to wiring patterns, to magnetic field and the list goes on.
A big part of a particular pickups tone comes fron its physical location in relation to the harmonic nodes of the string.
If there is a humbucker in one space, then you can get humbucker tones (including split or parallel tones) but you simply cannot get a true single tone.
Putting a pair of single coils next to each other has been done (ala the stag mag) but that will not give you the same sound as a humbucker and there are many considerations to do with magnetic fields etc.
The best thing you can do is choose the tones you really like best, and wire your guitar to deliver those tones. Don't worry about trying to make an axe be all things. Any axe that can do one or two great things is enough to be a great instrument.

Back in the 90s, Lace sensors were popular because they were constructed differently to conventional pickups and they allowed you to put two side by side for full humbucking performance. They call them lace "duallys" which are essentially just any two lace sensors side by side and wired in series. You can set up switching to get the regular single lace sensor sound. I did this myself for a while, back when i thought that having an axe that can do everything was possible. Still, i reckon i've managed to get much more rewarding tones from my old "test bed/workhorse" strat when it has either had simply a pair of real humbuckers, or a regular vintage style 3 singles setup.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

I like the HSH idea. But it couldn't be wired to have all of those combinations, could it? I imagine I'd have to choose which ones I'd want. How would you go about getting the most switchable options on such a guitar? I imagine multiple switches(?). And what did you mean by coil cut? (Just another term for split coil?)

when you split the coils of a humbucker, do you have to choose which coil will be the 'single'? I'm thinking of a 59/custom for the bridge humbucker, and it would be interesting to pair both the custom and also the 59 (separately) with the split neck and middle single. But not sure if something like this would be possible...

Coil cut = coil split, which makes an HB a single coil. You can do that with push-pull pots (volume & tone controls). You can decide with coil stays on in coil cut: in Duncan color code, the hot is black and ground is green, red & white are paired for the coil cut. To get the other coil, red is hot, white is ground, and black and green are paired for coil cut.

If a HB has both coil cut and phase push-pull pots, you can alternate which coil stays on in coil cut.

Rather than adding PU's, which may not sit under the string nodes properly (compromising their sound), and the possibility of overlapping magnetic fields, it's better to explore wiring options with the existing PU's. You can get as many, or more, useable sounds from a HH guitar, than an HHH (like the Jimmy Page 21-sound push-pull system, using two HB's and 4 push-pull pots). With an HSH configuration, you have 5 coils to work with, and with a little effort, can combine them in any combination. It makes no sense to add a 4th PU when you have so many options with HSH.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Check out a Steve Morse guitar: https://reverb.com/item/2234445-mus...id=pla&pla=1&gclid=CMGJ2634kM0CFQetaQodwoYGLw

 

[Brandenburg]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

here is how i have my hsh wired.. a series/split/parallel for each humbucker,kill switch and a bridge always on push/pull.. + a dual mode tone pot.. Im thinking of making a few changes soon though by changing the bridge always-on to a neck always-on and adding a phase switch.. might even put the single in series with a humbucker or two but i dunno as that would require buying a super-switch

 

[BlueSkiesAndPaign]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Or you can buy a DiPinto Galaxie 4 and switch pups. :3

 

[BlueSkiesAndPaign]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

^it has 4 single coils. Could add a JB Jr and lil 59 and retain two single coils.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

Also check out Music Man's Steve Morse model.

The pickups are close enough to "see" each other's magnetic field, though. I tested this to be audible and it wasn't subtle.

 

[esqueleto.23]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

You can decide with coil stays on in coil cut: in Duncan color code, the hot is black and ground is green, red & white are paired for the coil cut. To get the other coil, red is hot, white is ground, and black and green are paired for coil cut.

So you're saying that if I have a humbucker (with two coils, A and B), using black as hot and red/white paired for coil cut will give me pickup A on its own when split. And then if I reverse things, with red as hot and black/green wired for coil cut, this will give me pickup B on its own when split. Did I get that right?

With an HSH configuration, you have 5 coils to work with, and with a little effort, can combine them in any combination. It makes no sense to add a 4th PU when you have so many options with HSH.

This is really interesting. I'm learning quite a lot with this thread. I found a 'Megaswitch' from Stewart MacDonald (http://tinyurl.com/hmk8cz2) that allows for coil splitting, but only allows for 5 options. Maybe that's all you need, but I was hoping for a bit more. Are there any other switches out there that would allow for more options? Or maybe multiple switches is the way to go?

 

[esqueleto.23]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

here is how i have my hsh wired.. a series/split/parallel for each humbucker,kill switch and a bridge always on push/pull.. + a dual mode tone pot.

That's awesome. I have questions about all of this, if you don't mind.

Are the series/split/parallel switches just normal 3-way switches? And what does the kill switch do? I'm assuming that the bridge always on push/pull is a volume pot that, when pulled, makes the bridge be always on. And what does the dual mode tone pot do?

 

[Brandenburg]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

That's awesome. I have questions about all of this, if you don't mind.

Are the series/split/parallel switches just normal 3-way switches?

yep.. just a DPDT on/on/on.. eventually Ill add 2 more DPDT so each humbucker will have a phase switch. Technically I only need one but having one per pickup eill give me the small added advantage of controlling what coil is active when used in conjunction with the coil split. I also Might add a series switch to put the single in series with another pickup. This strat is set up to be my "versatile" do everything guitar

And what does the kill switch do?

throws my signal to ground which turns my guitar on and off. People tend to use a momentary switch for this so they can get a staccato sound like you can with an LP type of guitar (i.e. turn one 'pup down and switch between the 'pups.. for rapid on/off sound). I do not use it this way at all but instead really do use it for an on/off.. When im through playing, I just flick the switch and the guitar is quiet.No fumbling with any knobs Also helpful when someone is trying tell you something important or you are getting a phone call that you want to answer..No fumbling with any knobs..4 out of 6 of my guitars have this mod

I'm assuming that the bridge always on push/pull is a volume pot that, when pulled, makes the bridge be always on.

yea. This gives me two extra sounds
N+M+B & N+B
Eventually im going to change this to neck always-on so it will be like my other guitar that has a neck always-on switch.. Less confusion. When i added the mod, I added it to both guitars at around the same time but one on the neck and the other on the bridge. I was unsure which I would like better

And what does the dual mode tone pot do?

well.. just another option.. give me the option to choose between a low pass or high pass and a little slider for each to further increase your tonal range
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/pr...de-High-Low-Pass-Tone-Control-For-Guitar.html

guitar that uses this wiring scheme is this one. not trying to hijack your thread but here it is.. Ive posted it here before a few times.. Plays well enough but needs a new nut and a fret dress/level. I have a LSR roller nut but lach the proper setup to install atm..The ction is low enough for me but a spot or 2 buzz.. not going to raise the action a tad for 2 trouble spots.. lol

 

[blueman335]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

-So you're saying that if I have a humbucker (with two coils, A and B), using black as hot and red/white paired for coil cut will give me pickup A on its own when split. And then if I reverse things, with red as hot and black/green wired for coil cut, this will give me pickup B on its own when split. Did I get that right?

- This is really interesting. I'm learning quite a lot with this thread. I found a 'Megaswitch' from Stewart MacDonald (http://tinyurl.com/hmk8cz2) that allows for coil splitting, but only allows for 5 options. Maybe that's all you need, but I was hoping for a bit more. Are there any other switches out there that would allow for more options? Or maybe multiple switches is the way to go?

- You mean 'coil' not 'PU', and yes, that's what changing the wires does.

- I use push-pulls for my alternative wirings, as rotary switches are big, bulky, expensive, and confusing to wire. Push-pulls are more versatile and much easier. Mini-toggles are little boxes, wired like push-pulls.

 

[esqueleto.23]

Re: 4 Pickup Stratocaster...is this doable??

This strat is set up to be my "versatile" do everything guitar

Really cool man. Those switches are tiny! Hardly even notice they're there.

This thread has been so useful for me. Thanks for answering all of my annoying questions.

So you guys (Bradenburg and blueman) have pretty much convinced me on the HSH. At the moment I'm imagining it with Alnico II Pro Neck HB, 59/Custom Bridge HB, and some single coil strat pickup that I've yet to settle on. My friend has an Eric Johnson strat that gets a really good tone from the neck, so maybe I'll go that direction. Any ideas for the single?



Figured the image would help clarify things a bit - A+B being the bridge, D+E being the neck.

Settled on some core tones that I'd want out of it:
Neck HB (D+E)
Bridge HB (A+B)
Neck & Bridge HBs (A+B+D+E)
Middle (C)
Bridge split [to Custom] (A)
Middle & split Bridge (A+C)

Then there's a whole range of other possibilities that might sound good, but I'm not really sure about:
Bridge split [to '59] & Neck split (B+D)
Bridge split [to Custom] & Neck split (A+D)
Neck split & Middle (C+D)
Neck HB & Middle (C+D+E)
Bridge HB & Middle (A+B+C)

One question here - do HBs sound good in combination with single coils?

And then I guess there's also a range of other possibilities of putting the pickups in parallel, series, and phase, which I have no idea about because I know nothing about these things.

So yeah, open to any suggestions.