4 wire question

[BobS67]

Hello and thanks for having me on the forum.

I am looking for different ways to get the most out of a 1 pup guitar and had an idea but not being a pickup or guitar builder I need help with figuring out if it can be done.

Can a single 4 wire pick up be wired to 2 concentric volume/tone pots so each coil has separate control? I think it should be possible. Correct me if i'm wrong but once the start and finish are found for each coil it should just be a matter of wiring them to the separate pots then to the jack and ground.

I believe that if this can be done on a high output pup some interesting tones should be possible. I appreciate the help in advance. thanks

 

[AlexR]

Re: 4 wire question

^ Yes.....it is simply a matter of treating them as two singlecoils. If you look at the duncan wiring code you will see the typical hot and ground wire if you want to run it in series and humcancelling. You just connect the other wire for each individual coil to the remaining option of hot/ground.
It might be just as easy to wire 'spin-a-split' though, as you will only have parallel connection with your idea, even though you keep the hum cancelling.

 

[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

^ Yes.....it is simply a matter of treating them as two singlecoils. If you look at the duncan wiring code you will see the typical hot and ground wire if you want to run it in series and humcancelling. You just connect the other wire for each individual coil to the remaining option of hot/ground.
It might be just as easy to wire 'spin-a-split' though, as you will only have parallel connection with your idea, even though you keep the hum cancelling.

Well i'm looking to utilize the existing pickguard so how about if I were to use a concentric pot and use the remaining pickguard hole for a switch to add variety. could series/parallel/ single be doable? what about if I used this setup with a P Rail and a rotary switch? sorry for all the questions. I do appreciate the help. thank you.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: 4 wire question

Hi BobS67, and welcome to the forum!

I took a look at your request and came up with a diagram for you. I did make a change though to make it easier for you to utilize all 3 holes in your pickguard. I opted for a volume control, one concentric pot, and a push/pull (or push/push) pot for the tone control. You can use the concentric pot as separate volumes for the coils and the switch on the tone control to choose series (down) or parallel (up).

Also, I definitely suggest using something like the P-Rails for this setup, especially if the pup is in the bridge position, as the sounds of the two coils will be almost indistinguishable from one another if you use a standard humbucker with two similar coils.

Let me know if you have any questions or if you'd like something to be different... and NO MATTER WHAT, make sure to keep us updated on your project! [emoji1303][emoji2]

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[Brandenburg]

Re: 4 wire question

NO MATTER WHAT, make sure to keep us updated on your project! [emoji1303][emoji2]

and what if our alien overlords decide to come back and enforce their awesome will...

just saying as you never know lol

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: 4 wire question

and what if our alien overlords decide to come back and enforce their awesome will...

just saying as you never know lol

It's funny you'd say that... I watched "Independence Day" last night... [emoji33]


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[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

Thanks for the diagram BriGuy1968. it's a big help. I actually have 2 guitars I want to upgrade in this manner. 1 already has a similarly designed warman pup (a single coil and a dual rail on 1 hum plate) which as you said doesn't have much differentiation between the blades and the sc. Both have 2 holes for controls. I can add a 3rd to the current project no problem but as both a budgetary ( I am thinking resale) and mental challenge I want to explore creative options to just use the 2 holes, hence the concentric pots idea. The other guitar is set up with 1 concentric pot and a 3 way on/on/on switch. If I use the same set up on this new project will there really be good tonal differentiation between the 3 standard options? how many options could I realistically get out of this pup? the warman can be wired for 10 but they aren't very different from each other and thus not worth the effort.

And Brandenburg, SHHH... What the alien overlords don't know won't hurt us.

Thanks again guys!

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: 4 wire question

Thanks for the diagram BriGuy1968. it's a big help. I actually have 2 guitars I want to upgrade in this manner. 1 already has a similarly designed warman pup (a single coil and a dual rail on 1 hum plate) which as you said doesn't have much differentiation between the blades and the sc. Both have 2 holes for controls. I can add a 3rd to the current project no problem but as both a budgetary ( I am thinking resale) and mental challenge I want to explore creative options to just use the 2 holes, hence the concentric pots idea. The other guitar is set up with 1 concentric pot and a 3 way on/on/on switch. If I use the same set up on this new project will there really be good tonal differentiation between the 3 standard options? how many options could I realistically get out of this pup? the warman can be wired for 10 but they aren't very different from each other and thus not worth the effort.

And Brandenburg, SHHH... What the alien overlords don't know won't hurt us.

Thanks again guys!

Sorry... I must have misunderstood. I thought you had a pickguard with 3 holes to fill. I should be able to come up with a revised diagram this evening for you that employs the two concentric pots.

I'm not familiar with the pickup you're describing, but I would think that a standard coil and a dual-blade coil WOULD have decent tone variation between the two... seems like it'd be worth a try!

As for how many tonal variations you can expect, any 4-wire humbucker will have 4 variations:
• Series
• Parallel
• North Coil
• South Coil

You're not gonna get more unless you start adding more pups or onboard boosts/effects.


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[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

Sorry... I must have misunderstood. I thought you had a pickguard with 3 holes to fill. I should be able to come up with a revised diagram this evening for you that employs the two concentric pots.

I'm not familiar with the pickup you're describing, but I would think that a standard coil and a dual-blade coil WOULD have decent tone variation between the two... seems like it'd be worth a try!

As for how many tonal variations you can expect, any 4-wire humbucker will have 4 variations:
• Series
• Parallel
• North Coil
• South Coil

You're not gonna get more unless you start adding more pups or onboard boosts/effects.


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Thank you for the upcoming diagram.

The warman pickup (here: http://www.warmanguitars.co.uk/product/warman-g-rail-hybrid-pickup/) is not that loud which is why I think there is not much audible difference. put some distortion on it and the differences are more apparent. It has a great tone for lead but you have to pull the tone out of it.

The people at warman were talking about in and out of phase as well as series/ parallel options using 3 switches. I don't know how many are actually viable options but with this pup there will not be much difference anyway.

I like the idea of upgrading in a minimalist fashion and - much like a NYC apartment - getting the most out of available space so going with 2 concentric pots in the 2 holes.

what ever ideas anyone can come up with that utilize the 2 hole set up and allow for max tonal options are greatly appreciated.

And Thanks again guys.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: 4 wire question

You CAN do out-of-phase between coils of the same pickup, but it's pretty uncommon. The problem is that because they're so close together they practically cancel each other out. OOP is great between pickups, especially between bridge and neck (even going OOP between say the bridge and center pups of a Strat is pretty questionable for usefulness because of their close proximity).

If you want to try it anyway I can draw it up. If you want to stick to two holes you may have to lose your tone control. Otherwise it can be added by using a mini switch.

Incidentally, we'll have to add a mini switch as well in order to give you both series and parallel with the two concentric pots.


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[BriGuy1968]

Re: 4 wire question

Okay... here we go...

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[DrNewcenstein]

Re: 4 wire question

OOP between middle and outer pickups is definitely not one of those "everyday use" tones. I have one H-S-S wired to switch between these options, and while it's do-able, it's not very practical as a primary-guitar-track tone - for most Rock and Metal, anyway. I guess for Fusion, Jazz, or something similar it'd work fine.

 

[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

You CAN do out-of-phase between coils of the same pickup, but it's pretty uncommon. The problem is that because they're so close together they practically cancel each other out. OOP is great between pickups, especially between bridge and neck (even going OOP between say the bridge and center pups of a Strat is pretty questionable for usefulness because of their close proximity).

If you want to try it anyway I can draw it up. If you want to stick to two holes you may have to lose your tone control. Otherwise it can be added by using a mini switch.

Incidentally, we'll have to add a mini switch as well in order to give you both series and parallel with the two concentric pots.


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The guitar with the warman g-rail has only 1 concentric pot and a 3 way on switch. If needed I will use this set up on the project guitar. I would rather do that than start drilling holes in my apartment. My ultimate interest is in getting the most out of 1 pup. Would a 1 concentric pot/ 4 way switch/dial set up be the best option in this case?

I don't mean to confuse anyone or sound like I don't know what i'm doing, i.m just trying to find the best set up for a 1 pup guitar I do appreciate the help. Thanks guys.

 

[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

Okay... here we go...

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Thank you BriGuy1968! this will work nicely. Since the guitar has a standard strat top routed control cavity I should be able to easily (and quietly) add a small hole for the switch. Thanks again for all the work!

 

[BobS67]

Re: 4 wire question

OOP between middle and outer pickups is definitely not one of those "everyday use" tones. I have one H-S-S wired to switch between these options, and while it's do-able, it's not very practical as a primary-guitar-track tone - for most Rock and Metal, anyway. I guess for Fusion, Jazz, or something similar it'd work fine.

Good to know. I wouldn't want too many options anyway, it can get confusing in practice. 3 or 4 from 1 pup is plenty.