50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

[jalguitarman]

Hi all I just Got my Bare Knuckle "Stormy Monday" pickups ordered on Tuesday, and am awaiting their arrival. Likely 2 or 3 weeks. I ordered them with 2 conductors as I can see no real use in coil-splitting such low output humbuckers. I am contemplating how I should have it wired up between 50's or modern wiring kinda curious as to what input you all might have to offer, Thank you as always.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

How accessible are the controls for soldering??

50's vs modern is in the moving of 1 wire on the vol pot lugs. So if those f-holes are actually holes then you could resolder in situ.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

I would do 50's if it were me. Gives more range to work with.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

How accessible are the controls for soldering??

50's vs modern is in the moving of 1 wire on the vol pot lugs. So if those f-holes are actually holes then you could resolder in situ.

Those are real F- holes but it looks like it would be a real booger to get to. I am going to let someone experienced handle it. I also going to have the pots changed to CTS pots. 500 k of course.
plus I bought Orange Drop capacitors with the appropriate values, vintage braided wiring, new switch, new jack and Amber knobs because the old ones would not fit the new pots and I really don't like the gold knobs. I may very likely get a set of Kluson revolution tuners and a Tone Ninja nut. Which means the thing is going to essentially be gutted.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

The classic Les Paul sound is '50's wiring, but this is such a simple thing to change. Try both and see what you think. The difference is not that impactful.

For the record, all my LPs are wired '50's

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

The classic Les Paul sound is '50's wiring, but this is such a simple thing to change. Try both and see what you think. The difference is not that impactful.

For the record, all my LPs are wired '50's

My only reservation is that I don't want to make things to bright, which is the complaint that some have about 50's wiring.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

At one time I thought I preferred 50's wiring. I no longer do.

To me it seems to thin the tone. Which is sort of the point: to help keep the sound clear and prevent it from becoming too bassy when the guitar's volume pot is turned down when one is playing rhythm. (Which is what you play during the 90% of the song when you're not soloing.)

If my guitar sounds like I need more clarity or treble when I turn down the guitar's volume for rhythm, I use a 180 pf. Bright cap on the volume control. My PRS guitars have that stock so I've not had to add it.

However, I did remove it from one of my PRS guitars when I replaced the worn out pots and found that it made very little difference. Just enough to make a difference...but not a huge difference. It's subtle.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I no longer use the 50's mod and prefer "modern" wiring and use a bright cap or treble bleed circuit if I feel I need it.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

At one time I thought I preferred 50's wiring. I no longer do.

To me it seems to thin the tone. Which is sort of the point: to help keep the sound clear and prevent it from becoming too bassy when the guitar's volume pot is turned down when one is playing rhythm. (Which is what you play during the 90% of the song when you're not soloing.)

If my guitar sounds like I need more clarity or treble when I turn down the guitar's volume for rhythm, I use a 180 pf. Bright cap on the volume control. My PRS guitars have that stock so I've not had to add it.

However, I did remove it from one of my PRS guitars when I replaced the worn out pots and found that it made very little difference...just enough to make a difference...but not a huge difference. It's subtle.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I no longer use the 50's mod and prefer "modern" wiring and use a bright cap or treble bleed circuit if I feel I need it.

Good idea Lew. I had the Pots on my Carvin CS6 upgraded to the ones PRS sells which has that on it. Plus Emerson capacitors. Not an extreme difference but but definitely an ear pleasing one.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

That is why you try it both ways.

Dark sounding guitar, it might brighten it up. Too bright, try it modern. There are so many things that can affect the sound and only you can decide what you like.

One man's bright is another's cut.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

For me if it's bright, I just roll the tone off a notch. But if I'm playing out in a dark sounding room or through someone else amp that isn't all that clear, it's good to have some options to get 'my' sound out of it. Either way.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

Yep, many ways to skin a cat. All versions have some drawbacks.
A recent thread explored the bass cut that certain TB circuits have. And others find the pot taper gets odd with other TB setups.

You have to find your own way - which is why having the controls easily accessible might be an advantage. If the volume pots have enough slack to the tone pot attachments then you could loosen the nut and swivel the vol pot so the lugs sit out into the F-hole. Very easy then to make any adjustment.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

I've always thought that 50s wiring sounds better on paper, but doesn't quite live up to the reputation it gets. Sure if you have really hot pickups it might be useful, you can ease of the gain with out making them even darker. But in my experience with it, it goes from making the volume pot useless to making both of then useless. When rolled back, the volume cuts quite a bit of bass between 9 and 10, and the tone cuts quite a bit of volume throughout its range of travel.

I think a good treble bleed with resistors and caps taylored to the guitar works the best at fixing treble loss from the volume pot.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

I think I am going to go with modern wiring to start with a treble bleed cap on the volume pots. Thank you all.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

I think I am going to go with modern wiring to start with a treble bleed cap on the volume pots. Thank you all.

If you don't already have a treble bleed in mind, I'd recommend the Kinman version. Just replace whatever value resistor they have with a 220k. That way it'll bettwr interact with your 500k pots.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

I've never found 50's wiring to cut bass.....until you get to very low tone and the volume right down. Say 2-3 on the typical vintage style pot. IME of the many many guitars I currently have wired that way (over 30 I think) they all do the most natural job of maintaining the right balance of treble. Not artificially high like any TB circuit I've seen metered out, and certainly not a rolloff in bass.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

If I do something to "increase" the treble, and then turn down the overall volume, the overall tone then sounds to me like I've reduced the bass...whether I actually have or not.

When I rewired my '95 PRS CU22 with 50's wiring it became too trebley...and sounded thin when I turned down the volume of the guitar. I didn't enjoy playing it as much, especially live and especially at church gigs where I had to play quietly compared to bar gigs.

I've noticed this when I've tried 50's wiring on my Strats and Teles too.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

If I do something to "increase" the treble, and then turn down the overall volume, the overall tone then sounds to me like I've reduced the bass...whether I actually have or not.

When I rewired my '95 PRS CU22 with 50's wiring it became too trebley...and sounded thin when I turned down the volume of the guitar. I didn't enjoy playing it as much, especially live and especially at church gigs where I had to play quietly compared to bar gigs.

I've noticed this when I've tried 50's wiring on my Strats and Teles too.

Sorry to hijack the post...Hello Lew and hope you're doing ok buddy?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

Sorry to hijack the post...Hello Lew and hope you're doing ok buddy?

Hey John. Challenging. I'll send you a PM.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

If I do something to "increase" the treble, and then turn down the overall volume, the overall tone then sounds to me like I've reduced the bass...whether I actually have or not.

When I rewired my '95 PRS CU22 with 50's wiring it became too trebley...and sounded thin when I turned down the volume of the guitar. I didn't enjoy playing it as much, especially live and especially at church gigs where I had to play quietly compared to bar gigs.

I've noticed this when I've tried 50's wiring on my Strats and Teles too.

Its interesting what you say.....as the treble bleed would seem to be even moreso this case than 50's wiring by your description. 50's wiring keeps treble to be sure - but the overall treble content is reduced as volume is reduced. Treble bleed simply keeps the same treble as in the full signal - so you get this massive treble spike.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50's or modern wiring for my Epiphone Es Les Paul???

Its interesting what you say.....as the treble bleed would seem to be even moreso this case than 50's wiring by your description. 50's wiring keeps treble to be sure - but the overall treble content is reduced as volume is reduced. Treble bleed simply keeps the same treble as in the full signal - so you get this massive treble spike.

Yeah. That's why I prefer a very small bright cap. One that makes very little difference. Extremely subtle with the 180 pf cap. Almost like none at all.