59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

[guitarkid]

Hey everyone,

Some of you probably saw that I picked up a Fender '59 Bassman Reissue last week. I really like the amp, but lately I have noticed that is has kind of a harsh tone on the highs and upper mids, especially if I am using any decent amount of gain. I've have done tons of google searches and read some threads on other forums, but I am not sure if its the something to do with the tubes and circuit or if its something to do with the speakers.

Some people have said that putting a 12AY7 in V1 really smooths and warms up the amp. Mine is also one of the older reissues with the plug in solid state rectifier. They have also said that switching to a tube rectifier helps warm the amp up too, so I have been thinking about it putting in a tube rectifier and a 12AY7 in the V1 slot.

The other thing that I thought it might be is the speakers. This amp has the stock 10" Jensen P10R speakers in it. This is the first amp I have owned with 10"s in it, so I am not that familiar with them or if these Jensens are good or not. I would much rather just swap a few tubes than put new speakers in it, but I'm not certain what is causing the harsh tone yet.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks guys!

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Be happy with it. Its a mid -level copy of a real BAssman. They very barely sound anything alike. Don't get me wrong..1/4 of the sound of a real Bassman is probably still the best sounding new amp you can get.

 

[trevorus]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

If you have the stock Sovtek tubes in it, or the Fender Color labeled ones, dump them. Get some better glass in there!

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

If you have the stock Sovtek tubes in it, or the Fender Color labeled ones, dump them. Get some better glass in there!

Yeah, I believe the tubes are all stock. GTs in the power section and Fender Labled in the pre-amp

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I can't remember if you bought it new or not. If you did, the speakers may not be broken in and thus might sound kinda harsh for a while. The other thing is the tubes. I'm not a fan of the "Groove Tubes" because most of them are just Sovteks which are a bit harsh in Fender amps.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I can't remember if you bought it new or not. If you did, the speakers may not be broken in and thus might sound kinda harsh for a while. The other thing is the tubes. I'm not a fan of the "Groove Tubes" because most of them are just Sovteks which are a bit harsh in Fender amps.

I bought it used. It's actually one of the mid 90's reissues, so the speakers should be broken in, I would think. I'm thinking I'll try new tubes. The only down side to this amp is that they didn't install an adjustable bias pot. So I'm thinking I might take it to my local tech, have him check everything out on the amp, install a bias pot, and put some different tubes in it.

 

[trevorus]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Yeah, I believe the tubes are all stock. GTs in the power section and Fender Labled in the pre-amp

If they are original, they probably have some miles on them. Take it in, get the bias pot mod done, and put in some fresh tubes. I think it'll be more to your liking after that.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

If they are original, they probably have some miles on them. Take it in, get the bias pot mod done, and put in some fresh tubes. I think it'll be more to your liking after that.

Sounds like a plan!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I'll bet its the old tubes. A new set and a rebias is a worthy investment. At best it will transform you amp...at worst it doesnt change much at all, but at least you have a spare set of tubes.
If you want fatter and warmer with a rounder top, keep it simple and get a full set of jj's.

If new tubes dont make yiou happy then this is something to consider:

The other thing that I thought it might be is the speakers. This amp has the stock 10" Jensen P10R speakers in it.

P10's are bright. Perhaps dropping in a different pair of really meaty sounding speakers (like delta demons) into the quad will give the sound some girth. This kind of speaker is not super efficient, so you can crank your amp a little higher than you woukd with more efficient speakers. They also have bags of headroom, so they will reproduce your bass notes without breaking a sweat. The other nice thing is that because they are darker sounding, you will have a feeling of more power and oomph, but less cutting top end that crowds, sound engineers and other band members hate. If you like it, then keep them to complement the two remaining jensens, if you want more, then go for a full set of four.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

First thing I'd do is put a tube rec in there!!!!

Second thing I'd do is replace the rest of the tubes.

The swap to a 12AY7 is a HUGE difference in the tone and gain so keep that in mind...stock in the 50's they had 12AY7's but most players today like the added gain of 12AX7s

As for the speakers once broken in those P10R's are not terrible speakers but there are better speakers out there IMHO however good speakers ain't cheep.

I'd start with tubes and see where you land.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

I'll bet its the old tubes. A new set and a rebias is a worthy investment. At best it will transform you amp...at worst it doesnt change much at all, but at least you have a spare set of tubes.
If you want fatter and warmer with a rounder top, keep it simple and get a full set of jj's.

If new tubes dont make yiou happy then this is something to consider:


P10's are bright. Perhaps dropping in a different pair of really meaty sounding speakers (like delta demons) into the quad will give the sound some girth. This kind of speaker is not super efficient, so you can crank your amp a little higher than you woukd with more efficient speakers. They also have bags of headroom, so they will reproduce your bass notes without breaking a sweat. The other nice thing is that because they are darker sounding, you will have a feeling of more power and oomph, but less cutting top end that crowds, sound engineers and other band members hate. If you like it, then keep them to complement the two remaining jensens, if you want more, then go for a full set of four.

Awesome! Thanks a lot for the help man! JJ's sound like what I am looking for then. I'm still thinking about trying a 12AY7 in the V1 slot, do you think that would be a good idea? And also, would you keep the solid state rectifier or ditch it? I can't help but thinking that a tube rectifier would probably sound better in this amp.

I've never heard of the delta demons (I am new to 10"s though), I will check them out.
EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't realize they were eminence. And even priced cheaper than the Jensens.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

First thing I'd do is put a tube rec in there!!!!

Second thing I'd do is replace the rest of the tubes.

The swap to a 12AY7 is a HUGE difference in the tone and gain so keep that in mind...stock in the 50's they had 12AY7's but most players today like the added gain of 12AX7s

As for the speakers once broken in those P10R's are not terrible speakers but there are better speakers out there IMHO however good speakers ain't cheep.

I'd start with tubes and see where you land.

Ok thanks man! Is there a certain tube rectifier that you would recommend?

 

[Hoss]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

good advice...tubes...rectifier...then maybe speakers?

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

good advice...tubes...rectifier...then maybe speakers?

Yeah, I'm hoping the tubes will get it where I want without having to swap some speakers... Tubes are much cheaper lol

 

[CTN]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Try some JJ preamp tubes in there. the 12ax7s especially I find to be darker than most other tubes of the same type and work well for chopping a little bit of high end off the top.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Yep, +1 to the tube, tube rec, and speakers.

My personal speaker choice would be a celestion of some sort, or an Eminence Brit clone, but I always go for Brit style spkrs.

That said, I'd leave the spkrs until last, due to expense. It's possible that the other ideas may solve the problem.

 

[jeremy]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

you have the pre-ltd bassman ri right?

put a 12ay7 in v1, put a tube rectifier in, get a bias pot installed and get a good set of power tubes if yours are tired.

i had a bassman ltd and ran a nos 12ay7 in v1, jj ecc83 in v2, and sovtek 12ax7 lps in v3 with a pair of gt 6l6 ge power tubes biased a little hot with a nos 5ar4 recto. my amp also came with p10r speakers but i swapped them out for some p10q's and that helped tame some of the harshness. swapping two of the p10r's for something thicker sounding is a good idea.

i have a 2x10 cab with a p10q and eminence lil buddy and they compliment each other very well even though they are very different sounding speakers. you get the fat from the lil buddy and the cut from the jensen

try turning down your presence control too. i ran the channels jumped, treble and mids pretty high with the bass below half and presence usually off.

 

[LReese]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Bought this one in 1993. Could not leave well enough alone so - PTP board (When Hoffman made them in house) and shellacked the cabinet.

Its one righteous sounding amp, but probably due for a cap job. No 12AY7, but old tubes. Biggest thing I remember that made the most difference was to bias the power tubes to a normal level (35ma) - not so easy to do on the original board.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Try some JJ preamp tubes in there. the 12ax7s especially I find to be darker than most other tubes of the same type and work well for chopping a little bit of high end off the top.

Ok thanks man. Thats what I plan on trying.

Yep, +1 to the tube, tube rec, and speakers.

My personal speaker choice would be a celestion of some sort, or an Eminence Brit clone, but I always go for Brit style spkrs.

That said, I'd leave the spkrs until last, due to expense. It's possible that the other ideas may solve the problem.

Alright thanks. Yeah, the speakers will definitely come last, after everything else. I've always played 1x12 combos, so I'm not used to having to change as many speakers, or the cost of more than one. Lol

you have the pre-ltd bassman ri right?

put a 12ay7 in v1, put a tube rectifier in, get a bias pot installed and get a good set of power tubes if yours are tired.

i had a bassman ltd and ran a nos 12ay7 in v1, jj ecc83 in v2, and sovtek 12ax7 lps in v3 with a pair of gt 6l6 ge power tubes biased a little hot with a nos 5ar4 recto. my amp also came with p10r speakers but i swapped them out for some p10q's and that helped tame some of the harshness. swapping two of the p10r's for something thicker sounding is a good idea.

i have a 2x10 cab with a p10q and eminence lil buddy and they compliment each other very well even though they are very different sounding speakers. you get the fat from the lil buddy and the cut from the jensen

try turning down your presence control too. i ran the channels jumped, treble and mids pretty high with the bass below half and presence usually off.

Awesome. Thanks for the suggestions!
Yes, this is a Pre-LTD Reissue. If it comes down to swapping the speaker, I will definitely be asking around for suggestions. I want to get the best bang for my buck. Lol I'll probably just try swapping at 2 to start with, if it comes to that.

Yeah, I've been runnung the presence knob pretty low. It get easly get overbearing if you even trun it up that much. I've also read that you can do a mod to tame the presence knob a bit, so I might check that out too.

Bought this one in 1993. Could not leave well enough alone so - PTP board (When Hoffman made them in house) and shellacked the cabinet.

Its one righteous sounding amp, but probably due for a cap job. No 12AY7, but old tubes. Biggest thing I remember that made the most difference was to bias the power tubes to a normal level (35ma) - not so easy to do on the original board.

I bet that sounds great!! I don't know if I want to spend that much in mods though. Haha

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59 Bassman Reissue sounding kind of harsh...

Here's my 2 cents on tubes.

Get these if you're on a budget:

JJ GZ34-$20
EH 12AY7-$14 ea
EH12AX7-$12
Sovtek 5881 WXT-$30 pair

If you want to spend more money for better tubes:

JJ GZ34-$20
NOS GE 12AY7-$30ea
reissue Tung Sol 12AX7-$15
reissue Tung Sol 5881-$40 pair

If you can afford it and want to buy, IMHO the best tubes you can get for that amp:

NOS Mullard GZ34-$225
NOS JAN Tung Sol 12AY7-$60 ea
NOS RCA 12AX7-$100
NOS Tung Sol 5881-$175 pair

All this said if it were mind I'd start with the stuff I listed first and see how I like the amp. Those are GREAT tubes and don't cost an arm and a leg.

As for the JJ pre's, I'm not a fan of JJ tubes at all...I use JJ GZ34's myself but past being a tube rec they have little effect on the tone IMHO and the JJ is easy to get and costs nothing compared to nice NOS GZ34's.