59/C hybrid dark in strat

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HeadBanginologist
I have a 59/C in my strat, mixed with two surfer antiquities in neck and middle. When I first put it in there I was surprised to find that it was kind of dark sounding. The strat is wired so the HB sees 500k on the volume and neck/middle see 250k on volume. The strat body is also mahogany.

The strangest thing is that the 59/C was pretty bright when I had it in a hamer studio custom a few years ago. Because of this I’ve considered maybe putting the 59C in my PRS which currently has two Ant HB’s, and moving the Ant Bridge HB to my strat.

So i guess my question is:

Have you found the 59C dark or muddy in a strat? If so, what did you do to mitigate it?

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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

That's probably a good idea to swap the 59/C with the Ant. It's customary to match single coils with a vintage output bridge humbucker. Then vintage neck humbuckers have to be set way low to balance with a vintage bridge and end up balancing better volume wise with a medium bridge. I bet it would work well. Cool photo with the crew.
 
59/C hybrid dark in strat

It worked for me. I’ve done just alder and basswood strats though. Have you tried lowering the pickup ?
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

Are you sure that there's not a wiring issue.

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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

No two guitars have the same needs. Plus all the different types of mahogany from Middle Eastern Nato (Gibson baldwin starter guitars to BC Rich NJ Deluxe) to Honduran Mahogany. I've never liked a guitar made of Nato.

starting off easy
If you're not a coated string fan start off with trying steel strings. Nickle Plated steel are very versatile and will always have a place for many but if I need a brighter tone try stainless steel or similar strings Fender to Ernie Ball to Dunlop Super bright strings will do the trick. Whatever brand you have most likely they them. Even standard Ernie Ball strings start off too bright for my taste but ok what else can you do.

next I'd adjust the pole pieces if you haven't this is the video in my book marks I show people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXIggQxlAhc

a fender no load tone control (or two) - I got the inspiration from Yngwie Malmsteen signature model guitars. His pickups would be too dark and warm with a standard fender strat wiring so this is how he combats it. At 10 the tone capacitor is not present in the guitar and this increases the volume (subtle) and resonant peak of the pickup(s). Turn it below 10 you feel a stiffness similar to a blend pot and then your tone capacitor is back into the circuit so you could even use a really high value like 0.1uf (100nf) and as they say get your cake and eat it too as the 100nf would cut a much higher amount of frequencies as you turn it down to 0%.

Perhaps try smaller tone capacitors - Depending on the gap in values can be subtle or extreme. Extreme being from 100nf to 22nf. I'd suggest 0.022uf (22nf) to 0.01uf (10nf) - if your wiring permits it use 1 capacitor instead of 2 as well. Any type of capacitor material besides ceramic (flat orange discs) or MLCC capacitors which are also ceramic. Green/red polyester is fine. If you're going down in values from a standard 0.047uf (47nf) to 0.022uf (22nf) you'll hear a difference even if you made the capacitor out in a tool shed as we're heightening the resonant peak of the guitar. The down side is if you use the tone and roll to 0 a lot you won't cut as many frequencies so this is why I mentioned the no load pot first.

If you've got a lot of time to spare this weekend. Check to see how closely the pots are to 500k. The higher the pots values are the brighter the guitar becomes. When I used to do project guitars if a pot I tested prior to putting in a guitar I wanted a brighter tone was below 470k tested I wouldn't use it.

If it was me perhaps I'd suggest getting rid of the 250k pots in the guitar
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

That's odd. Is it objectively dark, or simply dark compared to the singles?
For me the Hybrid has not been a dark sounding humbucker.

I agree the Antiquity ought to balance better in terms of output.
For me, though, the Ant bridge has not seemed especially bright. I'd describe it as sweet.

I should clarify that so far I only have one Hybrid and one set of Ants, so it might be the guitars they're in.
I too have been considering putting the Hybrid in to replace the Ant in a PRS.
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

The Hybrid, in every guitar I tried, has not presented itself as remotely dark. It is a scooped sound with more bass and treble than mids, and I've heard this in poplar, maple, and alder. Do you notice it is an inherently dark guitar?
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

My first guess is the 59/C is actually seeing 250k at the volume.

+1

I played for a while an esp horizon II with jazz/hybrid combo owned by my guitar teacher. It was too bright for our taste. That guitar is all mohagany with the maple cap, and my expectation was to get from it a warmer sound, instead of that bright sound. He ended up replacing the hybrid with a custom custom. I think it is a wiring issue too.
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

I think you guys are right. I opened up the strat tonight to try and replace the hybrid with an antiquity, and quickly remembered the antiquities I have in my PRS are long tail models and don’t fit the body/pickguard [emoji2359]

Anyway, here’s a few pictures from when i opened it up. I can’t seem to find my multi meter so i can’t take a reading on the master volume pot, but I don’t see any resistors in parallel (like i was told from 920D) for when i connect the humbucker, so I can only assume they wired in a 250k volume pot. There is a treble bleed on the master volume however.

True to form, they did install a 250k tone pot on the neck pickup and a 500k tone pot on the bridge pickup.
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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

So I opened up the guitar, checked all the pots, wiring, etc...and determined what I’ve been hearing as a perceived dullness is actually just a midrange/low bump between the pickup and the body. The volume pot is 500k, and the tone pot is 500k as well. The resistor for neck and middle is 470k, so it’s fine as well.

That being said; i think the 59/C would likely blend well in the PRS still, and gotta figure out which is the best humbucker for the strat. Might just end up using a 59 trembucker and call it a day [emoji2371]


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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

If you need it brighter, a Pearly Gates, Pearly Gates+ or 78 model should do that. If you need it hotter as well, a straight Custom should do it.
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

If going hotter, would there be an advantage going with a Full Shred rather than a Custom in this situation?
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

A Full Shred is a lot more highs than a Custom, without the chunky bass.
 
Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

A full shred might not be a bad idea, I see a few online with nickel covers [emoji848]


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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

Regarding the full shred, it seems to be slightly higher output than the hybrid. I’m wondering if that would negatively affect the pickup balance between it and the surfers?


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Re: 59/C hybrid dark in strat

Regarding the full shred, it seems to be slightly higher output than the hybrid. I’m wondering if that would negatively affect the pickup balance between it and the surfers?


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It is higher output, but not as 'full' sounding. So I still think the balance would be about the same.
 
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