'59, Custom 5 or Custom 59 Hybrid for coil-splittable bridge in HSS strat?

[cptl975]

For an HSS strat, I'm putting Duncan Antiquity II Surfers in neck and middle and deciding between a few humbuckers for the coil-splittable bridge.
- I'm leaning towards the '59, but does it sound good split for position 2 quack pairing with middle single coil?
- Does the higher output of Custom 5 make it better for coil-splitting? And if so, would it be a significant volume boost when full humbucker compared to vintage single coils?
- There's a lot of praise for the Custom 59 Hybrid for splitting, but I'm concerned about the significantly higher mids? I already use a mid-focused OD/boost pedal (~TS808) for leads.

For reference, I play through clean Fender amps, use pedals for gain stages, and style is mostly riding the neck and neck+middle single coils clean for funk/jazz/pop, and kicking in the bridge humbucker for rock/drive and leads. I don't use position 2 much during performance, but I want to keep a good split-bridge HB+middle single position 2 for home recording and classic country licks.

Your thoughts, experience, tips, advice, etc., will be super valuable.

Many thanks!

 

[eclecticsynergy]

59B would balance well with the singles; I ran one at the bridge of a Floydcaster for a very long time.
Mine wasn't wired for autosplit so I can't speak to the quack.
Unsplit, position 2 was still a good useful sound, though not the iconic Strat tone of course.

Bear in mind that 59s come standard with 2-conductor wiring, so for splitting you'd need to find or fabricate a 4-wire one.
They can be ordered that way as a shop floor custom and sometimes 4-wire 59s can be found used.

As to the mids of the Hybrid, that's depends a lot on your personal tastes and the individual guitar so it's harder to offer solid advice.
Never had a problem using a TS with the Hybrid myself. But I also play Gibsons so I'm comfortable with strong mids.

 

[Mincer]

The Custom 5 & Hybrid sound the same split, since the Hybrid splits to the Custom coil. The 59 has to be ordered 4 conductor to be split, but it's split sound, while weaker than the other 2, will match volume-wise with the Surfers. My HSS has the Hybrid, and I love the split sound.

 

[beaubrummels]

With the 59 split, you'd be mixing a 4k coil with a 6.4k Surfer coil. With a Custom 5 split, you'd be mixing a 7k coil with a 6.4k coil, which is somewhat closer to what a Strat does, though the coil design is different (the slugs aren't the magnets in a humbucker). With a 59/C, you could wire it to split to either coil you want and have both worlds (one literally is a 59 coil, the other is a Custom 5 coil).

Those humbuckers as-is sound is notably different to each other, so that's going to be a matter of personal taste. My 59/C isn't middy, it's bright and even in my LPs and SGs (though I don't have experience running it in an HSS Super Strat.) None of those pickups are middy, in my experience. With the Custom 5, you might be able to get enough gain/drive out of the output difference to not need kicking a boost pedal for leads.

 

[cptl975]

Thanks all for the input so far, really appreciate it. But to the last two replies, I think you're touching upon something that's confusing in the online catalogue descriptions.
The "Duncan Custom" (SH-5, ceramic, 14.8k) (not one of the three I was originally considering in the Op), says that it "forms one half of our '59/Custom Hybrid". So that made me think the Custom Hybrid was half '59 alnico 5 and half SH-5 ceramic. But you're saying the Hybrid is in fact half '59 and half SH-14 ("Custom 5", "double volume '59 with scooped mids").

Can you confirm which is correct and some clarity?

Many thanks!

 

[PFDarkside]

Generally you can only load a single magnet in a Humbucker (yes, there are triple magnets and you could do two smaller magnets) so yes, it’s more accurate to say half 59 and half Custom 5.

 

[beaubrummels]

Thanks all for the input so far, really appreciate it. But to the last two replies, I think you're touching upon something that's confusing in the online catalogue descriptions.
The "Duncan Custom" (SH-5, ceramic, 14.8k) (not one of the three I was originally considering in the Op), says that it "forms one half of our '59/Custom Hybrid". So that made me think the Custom Hybrid was half '59 alnico 5 and half SH-5 ceramic. But you're saying the Hybrid is in fact half '59 and half SH-14 ("Custom 5", "double volume '59 with scooped mids").

Can you confirm which is correct and some clarity?

Many thanks!

The Custom and the Custom 5 are the same coils, different magnet. So if the 59/Custom has an A5 magnet, splitting to the Custom coil gives you a Custom 5 split.

 

[dystrust]

With the 59 split, you'd be mixing a 4k coil with a 6.4k Surfer coil. With a Custom 5 split, you'd be mixing a 7k coil with a 6.4k coil, which is somewhat closer to what a Strat does, though the coil design is different (the slugs aren't the magnets in a humbucker). With a 59/C, you could wire it to split to either coil you want and have both worlds (one literally is a 59 coil, the other is a Custom 5 coil).

Those humbuckers as-is sound is notably different to each other, so that's going to be a matter of personal taste. My 59/C isn't middy, it's bright and even in my LPs and SGs (though I don't have experience running it in an HSS Super Strat.) None of those pickups are middy, in my experience. With the Custom 5, you might be able to get enough gain/drive out of the output difference to not need kicking a boost pedal for leads.

I have my Hybrid in a LP with Jimmy Page wiring and I concur with this. I'd say my 59/C is bright (but less so than a '59) and it isn't super middy, though it's less scooped than a Custom 5. If it ends up being too bright, you could always swap the magnet for A2. I love a Custom Custom in a Strat, and I imagine an A2 Hybrid would work just as well.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, it is confusing. But 59/Custom 5 Hybrid is more confusing, I guess. A Custom is more well known.

 

[Ace Flibble]

I think this is a very straight-forward situation.

If you want a really authentic single coil tone from the split bridge, check out the Stag Mag. If that's not enough of a full humbucker for you then look at the P-Rail; its rail coil isn't a very authentic single coil sound by itself, but in the 2nd position with a middle pickup it has much more 'quack' than any regular humbucker split does.

If you want a normally-constructed humbucker then the split sound will always be a compromise in some way. The Custom family of pickups do split well, though the plain Custom (ceramic) and Full Shred are the ones that sound closes to a Strat and pair the best with middle single coils. The Custom 5 and Custom/59 Hybrid do indeed split exactly the same, however the Hybrid has the more balanced humbucker tone and from what you describe, that will suit you better. Don't worry about the "higher mids"; the Hybrid doesn't actually have more mids than the Custom 5, it's just that the Custom 5 has more bass and treble, which make the mids seem much lower in it by comparison. Think of the Hybrid as being a Custom 5 with the most extreme treble and bass reduced (along with some output), not the mids brought up. The Hybrid is particularly good with big pedalboards since its rather flat and balanced EQ is flexible for any effect to work well.
(Also, don't be afraid of mids with a tubescreamer. Drive and distortion pedals need a lot of mids coming into them in order for them to work their best. 'Starving' them with a mids-weak pickup just thins out your sound greatly and defeats the point of boosting your signal. It's like, you don't bother to stick a turbocharger in a car with a weak engine; the car's got to have some power in the first place for the charger to be worth bothering with. Same with pickup mids and drive pedals.)

As a bonus, if you get the Custom/59 Hybrid and use a 3-way mini toggle to active the split, you can actually have it split to either coil for two different split tones. The Custom coil (slug) will be a thicker and darker single coil with output to match the middle pickup, which is how most modern SSS Strats are equipped, while the '59 coil will be a lot brighter and thinner with less output, which is similar to what you get in a 50s Strat. (Where all three pickups were often made exactly the same and so the neck and middle position were naturally louder.) So while neither coil is an authentic Strat or Tele-style single coil tone (you need the Stag Mag for that), you do at least get both a modern and a vintage flavour to play with.

So for someone who lists "funk, jazz, pop, rock and classic country", the Custom/59 Hybrid with a 3-way split/series/split is, I'll wager, going to be the most useful solution within a standard humbucker. (Again, I still think the Stag Mag or P-Rail will actually do you even better.)

 

[Mincer]

The Custom 5 was originally the Custom Custom Custom. Names are funny things. Part description, part marketing.

But the Hybrid has an EQ like a PAF: it is scooped, but not as compressed or scooped as the Custom 5. It really is the middle ground between the 59 and Custom.

 

[beaubrummels]

Just for what it's worth, the Whole Lotta Humbucker splits very well and sounds Fendery when split (think Dire Straits Sultans when blended with another split WLH, moreso when out of phase and in series with the other pickup) in addition to being a steller humbucker. (It's like a much improved 59)

 

[cptl975]

Thanks all for the clarification and replies. SUPER helpful, everyone. I already had the '59 trembucker on the way, but from this thread and a little more reading, I'm thinking the 59/C Hybrid may be better.

Two quick follow-ups:
1. May I throw in the Alnico Pro II for a quick comparison to the '59 and 59/C Hybrid? They're similar range output. Is it basically alnico 5 is brighter than alnico 2? This article mentions SD custom shop used to make an alnico 2 version of '59 with slightly more output to help get the classic EVH tone.
- Overall, I do value the whole humbucker tone over the split single coil tone.

2. With the Surfer single coils in neck and middle, and splittable bridge humbucker swap, do you recommend any changes to the volume and tone pots? Per the specs and wiring diagram seen here, looks like they're all 250k pots, even for the current splittable humbucker.

I wish I could just experiment and test all these options, but I'm not experienced at all with soldering or pickup electronics and each swap at my local shop is expensive.

Many many thanks!

 

[dystrust]

Two quick follow-ups:
1. May I throw in the Alnico Pro II for a quick comparison to the '59 and 59/C Hybrid? They're similar range output. Is it basically alnico 5 is brighter than alnico 2? This article mentions SD custom shop used to make an alnico 2 version of '59 with slightly more output to help get the classic EVH tone.

That article is probably referring to the '78 Model and the Custom Shop will still wind you one if you want it. It's wound to around 9K with an A2 magnet, and it's one of my favorite Strat bridge pickups. The one I had was 2-conductor, so I don't know how well it splits, I imagine it'd be a bit weak and thin (the '59 bridge definitely is). Compared to A2, A5 will have more output, more highs, and less mids, as well as more and tighter bass. I'm not super familiar with the A2P bridge, so I can't really comment on that.

2. With the Surfer single coils in neck and middle, and splittable bridge humbucker swap, do you recommend any changes to the volume and tone pots? Per the specs and wiring diagram seen here, looks like they're all 250k pots, even for the current splittable humbucker.

I wouldn't change the controls, and the 250K pots will help with any excess brightness from an A5 bridge pickup.

 

[Ace Flibble]

1. May I throw in the Alnico Pro II for a quick comparison to the '59 and 59/C Hybrid? They're similar range output.

The A2P is noticeably lower in output to a '59 and much lower in output to a Custom/59 Hybrid. Really the A2P is best thought of as a 50s PAF just tweaked to be better at cancelling hum. As a full humbucker it does balance in volume very well with most single coils, though the EQ is quite different; it's a very smooth pickup and especially compared to the Antiquity II Surfers you'll find there's a significant shift in EQ as you switch from one to the other. Split it is extremely weak and in position 2 you'll find the middle pickup dramatically overpowers it, reducing the 'quack'. If you like the idea of an A2 humbucker then I'd recommend the Pearly Gates over the A2P. Since it has just a tiny bit more output and treble the EQ is a better match for A5 single coils like the Surfers, and it splits better. I don't like it with singles as much as the '59, Custom/'59 or Custom, since those A5 magnets really do match up with single coils better and make for better splits than A2 magnets do (Fender and Seymour Duncan seem to agree, which is why many HSS Fenders used the Alnico 5 Pearly Gates Plus), but if an A2 humbucker takes your fancy then the PG is what to go for over the A2P.

As for pots, of course there's no definitive right or wrong answer, but the only humbuckers I like with 250k are ones that are both bright and high-output, like the JB and Distortion. The Custom/59 Hybrid can take a 250k pot 'okay' but I wouldn't use 250k with a '59. Usually in any mixed-pickup setup I use 500k for all controls. I find that it's better to go with slightly brighter controls so you definitely have clarity and can roll the tone control down if you need to lose some treble, rather than opting for slightly dark controls and possibly losing some clarity that you then can't regain.
You can also wire in an additional resistor to any single coils so they 'see' a different value to humbuckers, for example a 500k resistor parallel with a 500k pot means the single coil is acting as though it's running through 250k. So if you have any doubts, simply buying a bunch of 500k pots is the easiest solution. You can always add some resistors to the single coils later if the 500ks work out too bright for you.

 

[Mincer]

In an HSS I built, I used a 500k for volume, 250k for single tones, 500k for the humbucker tone. I used a Classic Stack, Five Two, and a Hybrid. I wrote a blog about that build here. Maybe there is something there that is helpful.