59 vs PG vs AP2

[fretburner]

Which NECK pup would give me a great WARM ("round") tone?

I thought I've made up my mind already on the PG ("PAF sound and lots of harmonics"). But then again, Slash uses AP2 and gets a great "round" tone out of it. Of course, the '59 is the "benchmark" for that.

I play "old school" metal btw, and we cover mostly Megadeth, Metallica and Ozzy.

Should I play it safe with the JB/59? Or do you think Custom/PG would be better in the above context? Or even a Custom/AP2 combo?

I almost forgot, I want to put these on an Epi LP std. And I think my Epi has an Alder body (not Mahogany, but I could be wrong. I only used it's relative weight as a basis).

Thanks!

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Here's my opinion, FWIW. I had an Epi LP several years ago, and put a C5/59' into it. With the body not being mahogany, it was too bright for my taste. A lot of the equation will depend on your amp as well.

When I think warm, smooth neck tone, the APH is the ticket. It's very balanced, articulate and does not get too bassy or ice pickey in the highs. IT balances very well with a bunch of bridge pickups, and is my neck bucker of choice for most applicaitons.

The PG has an upper mid hump that you really either love or hate in the neck. It's a great pickup, just with a little sizzle in the upper mids. It also does not get too bassy, although some perceive the mid spike as being a bit trebly. I just found it not smooth enough...YMMV.

The 59' is an outstanding neck pickup, in the right guitar. It can seem a little bright if the guitar is naturally bright, like I found in my Epi. It can also seem a bit bassy if the guitar does not have the weight to handle it. I have found that the 59' works best in a heavy mahogany guitar like a LP, although again, this is just my personal preference.

The bottom line is that they're all great pickups in the right guitar. I've just found that the APH is a better all around neck pickup for smooth, balanced, warm and articulate tones.

Again, YMMV

 

[spidey]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

I have a PG set in my main Paul - the neck pup is super round - think 90s Gov't Mule and that's the kind of neck tone you can get. Love it!

 

[fretburner]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

The thing that drew me into the PG is that it is supposed to have a lot of harmonics... If I can get the PG that "round" tone using a JTM60, then that should be the way to go. I wanna do like Vitto Bratta's solo to "love don't come easy" which has very tasteful, screaming pinch harmonics... but I want to be very warm, round like Slash's tone, then I'm definitely getting the PG.

Spidey,

You think Slash's warm tone can be acheived with a PG? Or really close to it? (let's just assume my JTM60 is like a JCM800)


Jeff,

What do you mean exactly mean by smooth enough?

And will it complement the Custom on the bridge well?


I think I'm fixed on getting a Custom for the bridge. SD's tone wizard recommends the Custom to both mahogany and alder bodies. I would believe mine is Alder, unless there's a light mahogany? Coz I don't think Epi does weight relieved LPs like Gibson.



Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it.

 

[MattPete]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

The PGn is great, but I wouldn't call the sound "round". You want the AP2 for that sound.

The 59n is too bassy, IMO.

 

[Aceman]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Ditto - It's fat (PG) , but has abit of bite and grit. And I love it!

 

[fretburner]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

would the AP2 go well with a Custom?

 

[MattPete]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Yep. I have that combo in one of my guitars, and most of the time it matches pretty well.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

I think you need to try all three and then you'll know which is right for you. All three are superb pickups. If you're playing mostly distorted or overdriven hard rock, the 59 might be the best choice, although I prefer a neck pickup with less bass as I like a completely clean tone from my neck pickup when I play jazzy/bluesy rythym.

Personally , I don't think there is a better sounding neck pickup in a Les Paul than the Pearly Gates...but that's me, not you.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Here's my opinion, FWIW. I had an Epi LP several years ago, and put a C5/59' into it. With the body not being mahogany, it was too bright for my taste. A lot of the equation will depend on your amp as well.

When I think warm, smooth neck tone, the APH is the ticket. It's very balanced, articulate and does not get too bassy or ice pickey in the highs. IT balances very well with a bunch of bridge pickups, and is my neck bucker of choice for most applicaitons.

The PG has an upper mid hump that you really either love or hate in the neck. It's a great pickup, just with a little sizzle in the upper mids. It also does not get too bassy, although some perceive the mid spike as being a bit trebly. I just found it not smooth enough...YMMV.

The 59' is an outstanding neck pickup, in the right guitar. It can seem a little bright if the guitar is naturally bright, like I found in my Epi. It can also seem a bit bassy if the guitar does not have the weight to handle it. I have found that the 59' works best in a heavy mahogany guitar like a LP, although again, this is just my personal preference.

The bottom line is that they're all great pickups in the right guitar. I've just found that the APH is a better all around neck pickup for smooth, balanced, warm and articulate tones.

Again, YMMV

Jeff.....In my Tokai Love Rock's neck spot,I found the 59N(I just took out)to be boomy in the lows....Muddy at times and I had mine down to 3/32" and almost even with the neck pickup cover...It wasn't overly bright,but I felt it was pretty woofy in my axe....We'll see how the PGN does? I'll keep us all posted...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

I think you need to try all three and then you'll know which is right for you. All three are superb pickups. If you're playing mostly distorted or overdriven hard rock, the 59 might be the best choice, although I prefer a neck pickup with less bass as I like a completely clean tone from my neck pickup when I play jazzy/bluesy rythym.

Personally , I don't think there is a better sounding neck pickup in a Les Paul than the Pearly Gates...but that's me, not you.

Lew....This was great to read,seeing as I Just stuck a PGN into my Love Rock and pulled a 7.5K 59 out of there....I Like the 59N alot,but I've now tryed 2 different rated dc resistance rated 59s and even the lower resistance one is too boomy in the lows....Hope the PGN is the ticket?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Jeff.....In my Tokai Love Rock's neck spot,I found the 59N(I just took out)to be boomy in the lows....Muddy at times and I had mine down to 3/32" and almost even with the neck pickup cover...It wasn't overly bright,but I felt it was pretty woofy in my axe....We'll see how the PGN does? I'll keep us all posted...

John, I think the 59' really needs the right axe to sound great in. In a light guitar it can be too bright and boomy at the same time...although so much depends on the rig, technique and it's relative height.

IMO, and FWIW, I think a beefy, heavy, mahogany guitar is what the 59' needs to balance out. Otherwise, it's lows especially tend to overpower the guitar. Strange, since it's not a high output pup, but that's what I hear. I'm excited to hear my 59' neck thru my 03' Standard when my Marshall gets out of the shop. Thru my GT-6 it sounds good, but the test will be the tube amp.

Also, GJ gets some PHENOMONAL tones out of his 59' thru his Goldtop and Silver Jubilee. I couldn't even get it to sound that good, thru the same rig.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

a 59n can be pretty overbering in some guitars, and be heaven in others...even if it's the same model...IMO a PG neck is the best standard neck bucker Duncan has...I think I am gonna pull out my Alnico II Pro in the neck of my Yamaha SG 2000 in favor of a PG!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

The 59N I have in my Gibson SG Standard is great...Wouldn't change that one for anything else,but in my Love Rock.....Different story? Both stock with their A5 magnets in place also..

 

[fretburner]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

John, I think the 59' really needs the right axe to sound great in. In a light guitar it can be too bright and boomy at the same time...although so much depends on the rig, technique and it's relative height.

IMO, and FWIW, I think a beefy, heavy, mahogany guitar is what the 59' needs to balance out. Otherwise, it's lows especially tend to overpower the guitar. Strange, since it's not a high output pup, but that's what I hear. I'm excited to hear my 59' neck thru my 03' Standard when my Marshall gets out of the shop. Thru my GT-6 it sounds good, but the test will be the tube amp.


>>> this is exactly my concern with the 59...

I'm not sure if my Epi has an Alder or Mahogany body.



I wish I had the money to buy all 3 and try each one...


i listenned to the clips at the website again, and yes, i think the 59 has more bass to it than the AP2... but it seems the AP2 is brighter? and the 59 is warmer?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Each guitar has it's own unique voice, which is part of the fun. What works in one Les Paul will not work in annother. The Love Rock is a GREAT LP clone....but weight, density and type of maple top can vary so greatly from one guitar to the next, even those that come off the assembly line one after annother.

Seriously, try the APH, or put an A3 mag in the 59'. I know Doc Barlo has had great success with the A3's in the neck...gotta try that as soon as I'm not afraid to ruin a double cream neck bucker.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Each guitar has it's own unique voice, which is part of the fun. What works in one Les Paul will not work in annother. The Love Rock is a GREAT LP clone....but weight, density and type of maple top can vary so greatly from one guitar to the next, even those that come off the assembly line one after annother.

Seriously, try the APH, or put an A3 mag in the 59'. I know Doc Barlo has had great success with the A3's in the neck...gotta try that as soon as I'm not afraid to ruin a double cream neck bucker.

At one point I Know I tryed an A3 in a 59B,but I went back to the A5...I can change the magnet for you no problem Jeff if you'd feel uncomfy doing it?

I always have at least 1 A2,A3,A4,and A5 magnet here at home if I feel the need to try something different...It's more of a pain in the a$$ when you're dealing with the covers...I Love covers in my Gibson style guitars though..Just looks right to me...

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

None of you mentioned antiquity neck! :smack: Shame on you! :laugh2:

Seriously, all depends on what you wanna get, and the wood you are working with. If you have a full mahogany (not very bright, and not that alive) 59n's are definitely the ticket, or a jazz in the neck if you wanna have more definition.

BUT for my tastes 59s sound too much like a strat. They have lots of defined bass, not that much mids and noticable highs. So obviously if you were to match a 59n with a naturally middy sounding guitar, the results would be great. But on a LP I generally don't like the 59, or change its a5 to an a3 in the neck.

On a LP (with a maple cap) I have (I think) 2 focal points. One is a sweet singing not that biting round but hollow and defined tone. Well there nothing (including all the boutique pickups I know of) can beat a stock antiquity neck HB. Best there is! From what I read in your posts I think that's the one you wanna check out.

If you need more upfront tone, more highs, more of that somewhat biting neck tone (without going over the top) well then you have 2 choices. Either a PG (a great neck pickup, but has them screaming uppermids that Jeff was talking about, and that makes it a unique pickup - round, but biting, a2 but with them a5 - uppermid bite. See?) or a seth neck (a2 neck tone, but defined, and a little more upfront. But not as smooth as an ant in a weird way, because ants have that deep defined but round tone. I don't know how to desrcibe it. You can get similar results by trying an a3 or an a2 magnet in an ant hb). There my favorite is PG necks if you discount magnet mods (otherwise an a3 ant is definitely hard to beat. By the way a3 59s are very cool as well).

Now if you wanna have more of a stong but round LP tone, a2p is the only choice. I love that pickup for what it does. Definitely was the one of my R7 which naturally was very alive. All the above that I talked about did not sound right in that guitar. I am using a set of rolphs in that R7 of mine, and I can tell you that a2p really sounds very much like a rolph 59 neck HB. the only problem with the a2p is that in the wrong guitar it can be a little too round. Like a 59 you gotta find the right guitar for that pickup.

In a nice sounding LP my favorite PAF clones are (1) a4 ant bridge and stock ant neck (2) a5 ant bridge and a3 ant neck (3) a set of PGs.

Good luck.

B

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

None of you mentioned antiquity neck! :smack: Shame on you! :laugh2:

Seriously, all depends on what you wanna get, and the wood you are working with. If you have a full mahogany (not very bright, and not that alive) 59n's are definitely the ticket, or a jazz in the neck if you wanna have more definition.

BUT for my tastes 59s sound too much like a strat. They have lots of defined bass, not that much mids and noticable highs. So obviously if you were to match a 59n with a naturally middy sounding guitar, the results would be great. But on a LP I generally don't like the 59, or change its a5 to an a3 in the neck.

On a LP (with a maple cap) I have (I think) 2 focal points. One is a sweet singing not that biting round but hollow and defined tone. Well there nothing (including all the boutique pickups I know of) can beat a stock antiquity neck HB. Best there is! From what I read in your posts I think that's the one you wanna check out.

If you need more upfront tone, more highs, more of that somewhat biting neck tone (without going over the top) well then you have 2 choices. Either a PG (a great neck pickup, but has them screaming uppermids that Jeff was talking about, and that makes it a unique pickup - round, but biting, a2 but with them a5 - uppermid bite. See?) or a seth neck (a2 neck tone, but defined, and a little more upfront. But not as smooth as an ant in a weird way, because ants have that deep defined but round tone. I don't know how to desrcibe it. You can get similar results by trying an a3 or an a2 magnet in an ant hb). There my favorite is PG necks if you discount magnet mods (otherwise an a3 ant is definitely hard to beat. By the way a3 59s are very cool as well).

Now if you wanna have more of a stong but round LP tone, a2p is the only choice. I love that pickup for what it does. Definitely was the one of my R7 which naturally was very alive. All the above that I talked about did not sound right in that guitar. I am using a set of rolphs in that R7 of mine, and I can tell you that a2p really sounds very much like a rolph 59 neck HB. the only problem with the a2p is that in the wrong guitar it can be a little too round. Like a 59 you gotta find the right guitar for that pickup.

In a nice sounding LP my favorite PAF clones are (1) a4 ant bridge and stock ant neck (2) a5 ant bridge and a3 ant neck (3) a set of PGs.

Good luck.

B

Great post Doc....So you like the PGN as is then and without the magnet swap?

If I wanted to decrease a bit of the mids and some of the lows,but keep the chime,would you think an A3 might do it,and at the same time tighten the PGN up a bit....In other words this....

Less lows(A bit less)
Mids with "sizzle" that the PGN already has....The mids are ok but maybe it's the "sizzle" that I'm not used to,as the 59's mids were more scooped?
Chime on top
Clearer and more articulate...

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: 59 vs PG vs AP2

Personally , I don't think there is a better sounding neck pickup in a Les Paul than the Pearly Gates...but that's me, not you.

You and me both.

I really lucked out with my PG. It measured 7.1k on my el-cheap-o Radioshack multimeter and it sounds great in my Lester compared to the 59 I had in it before, which in comparison to the PG , sounded bright, boomy, and anemic all at the same time. :smack: