59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

[Clint 55]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

I'd say use your volume knobs to get the sound you like in mid position, that's what they're there for. But yes, going to a lower output pickup will give you more bite in middle (and bridge) position.

 

[AZ Picker]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

This is completely normal, especially with the 59/JB combo, it's one of those weird things where the big bottom end of the 59 just overpowers the JB when they are both on. I've had them in 2 different Les Paul's and it's been pretty similar both times. When you said it's better as soon as you roll the neck volume to 9, I know your wiring is ok. Middle position on Les Paul's is tricky with higher output pickups, I find a lot of nice "middle tones" by turning both volumes down to about 5 and then just working the neck volume up for a warmer tone or vice Versa for a brighter tone. I've only found a few sets of pickups that I really like in the middle position with both volumes maxed, Seth Lovers (of course), the Pearly gates set is great for that too, Barekuckle mules and Abraxas and oddly enough in the higher output realm, the dreaded 498T and 490R combo are pretty decent too. Try lowering the bass side of the 59 a few turns, it will start to get better as you get some of the strong bass from the 59 dialed out.

 

[Erithus]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

I'd say use your volume knobs to get the sound you like in mid position, that's what they're there for. But yes, going to a lower output pickup will give you more bite in middle (and bridge) position.

Good solid advice. No point in switching pickups if I cannot tame this pair! Thank you very much!

v

This is completely normal, especially with the 59/JB combo, it's one of those weird things where the big bottom end of the 59 just overpowers the JB when they are both on. I've had them in 2 different Les Paul's and it's been pretty similar both times. When you said it's better as soon as you roll the neck volume to 9, I know your wiring is ok. Middle position on Les Paul's is tricky with higher output pickups, I find a lot of nice "middle tones" by turning both volumes down to about 5 and then just working the neck volume up for a warmer tone or vice Versa for a brighter tone. I've only found a few sets of pickups that I really like in the middle position with both volumes maxed, Seth Lovers (of course), the Pearly gates set is great for that too, Barekuckle mules and Abraxas and oddly enough in the higher output realm, the dreaded 498T and 490R combo are pretty decent too. Try lowering the bass side of the 59 a few turns, it will start to get better as you get some of the strong bass from the 59 dialed out.

Thanks man, this really puts me at ease that I am not messing up something real bad. I will lower the 59 even more and try again. This combo actually intrigues me a lot right now; taming it will be my new mission!

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

I would first adjust pickup heights even before volume changes, but yeah spending $120+ for different pickups when a few adjustments might fix it is premature.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

I have not had that problem (at least to the extent you are describing) in the over 50 guitars that I own, even with those that have the same or similar pickups or even greater mismatches. But then, I always wire mine with independent volumes wiring. I can't tell from your photos how you have yours wired, but would assume you have dependent volumes wiring which can have that kind of effect.

See if this makes a difference:
Attach the hot/lead from each pup to the center lug of its respective vol pot and attach the output wire that goes to the switch to the first lug on the vol pot (the third lug is grounded to the back of the pot). The wire to the tone pot can attach to the middle lug if you want modern tone wiring, or to the first lug if you want 50's tone wiring.

Also I hope that was a misprint about your capacitor and that it is actually a .022 uf cap, not a .22 uf. (It is a .022 uf if there is a "223" printed on the side of the orange drop).

And while you're at it rewiring the pots, if the tone is too bright put in some 250k vol pots. You won't hear a difference with only changing to 450k pots, and in fact, if they are 10% tolerance pots, the 450k pots could even sound brighter (500 - 10% = 450. 450 + 10% = 490).

 

[Chistopher]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

You won't hear a difference with only changing to 450k pots, and in fact, if they are 10% tolerance pots, the 450k pots could even sound brighter (500 - 10% = 450. 450 + 10% = 490).

It depends on where you go, but most good places take the pots that end up falling out of their 10% range to sell as either 450k or 550k.

 

[Erithus]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

I would first adjust pickup heights even before volume changes, but yeah spending $120+ for different pickups when a few adjustments might fix it is premature.

You are absolutely right!

I have not had that problem (at least to the extent you are describing) in the over 50 guitars that I own, even with those that have the same or similar pickups or even greater mismatches. But then, I always wire mine with independent volumes wiring. I can't tell from your photos how you have yours wired, but would assume you have dependent volumes wiring which can have that kind of effect.

See if this makes a difference:
Attach the hot/lead from each pup to the center lug of its respective vol pot and attach the output wire that goes to the switch to the first lug on the vol pot (the third lug is grounded to the back of the pot). The wire to the tone pot can attach to the middle lug if you want modern tone wiring, or to the first lug if you want 50's tone wiring.

Also I hope that was a misprint about your capacitor and that it is actually a .022 uf cap, not a .22 uf. (It is a .022 uf if there is a "223" printed on the side of the orange drop).

And while you're at it rewiring the pots, if the tone is too bright put in some 250k vol pots. You won't hear a difference with only changing to 450k pots, and in fact, if they are 10% tolerance pots, the 450k pots could even sound brighter (500 - 10% = 450. 450 + 10% = 490).

And you would be right! Dependent wiring and 0.022uF.

I will rewire this weekend and test your recommendation. Thank you for the advice!

It depends on where you go, but most good places take the pots that end up falling out of their 10% range to sell as either 450k or 550k.

I can get 250k, 300k and 500k readily. Not sure if I will change the pots tbh, I gues I can just roll down the tone knobs a bit?

 

[Erithus]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

Hey guys,

Sorry to come back to this thread, but I thought that this information might be useful to someone in the future.

So after a lot of experimentation, I have reached the conclusion that the JB/59 combo can produce distinct sounds in all three switch positions positions with full volume/tone settings.

What worked for me was two modifications:

1. I set the JB LOWER than the 59. It sounds strange to set the bridge lower but reducing the height of the JB to have the same output (not higher) to the 59 made the middle position "airier". Currently, the 59 is at 6/64'' while the JB is at 8/64''
2. I set the pole pieces to follow the radius of the fretboard. The pattern that forms would be (when looking down from the nut) as people are aware the following: \ / \ / \ / for both pickups.

The sound of the middle position is subtly different to the neck now. I would describe it as "wider" in the higher frequencies.

Anyway, that were my 0.02 cents! Thanks and sorry for the bump!

 

[Mark Cearlock]

Re: 59N/JB combo does not work on middle position

Great that you figured it out! I usually have trouble finding a good mix in the middle with hh guitars myself