6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
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Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
Not really. Maybe an infantismal amount. Even Eddie Van Halen says anyone who thinks ss kills the tone is crazy. Frankly whenever I've played a model with ss frets I had to be told they were stainless steel, otherwise just thought the frets were polished incredibly well. Couldn't really hear a tonal difference.
Not really. Maybe an infantismal amount. Even Eddie Van Halen says anyone who thinks ss kills the tone is crazy. Frankly whenever I've played a model with ss frets I had to be told they were stainless steel, otherwise just thought the frets were polished incredibly well. Couldn't really hear a tonal difference.
David Collins
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
In my experience, it's like so many other things in this field - it will only change the sound as much as one expects or believes it will.
In my experience, it's like so many other things in this field - it will only change the sound as much as one expects or believes it will.
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifesty...hings-you-should-know-about-frets-0705-1.aspx
http://www.online-discussion.com/Suhr/viewtopic.php?t=5700&sid=2234c587137a0f690b282ace1e93cde1
They are pretty bright sounding compared to Nikle Silver. Thats pretty easy to tell.
http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifesty...hings-you-should-know-about-frets-0705-1.aspx
http://www.online-discussion.com/Suhr/viewtopic.php?t=5700&sid=2234c587137a0f690b282ace1e93cde1
They are pretty bright sounding compared to Nikle Silver. Thats pretty easy to tell.
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Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
IMO, the only noticeable difference it imparts is shockingly good bending and playability. My Parker's SS frets were easily the smoothest I've ever used, and it's why on my custom build I'm having made I went with SS frets.
Have you ever owned a guitar with stainless frets, Jerry?
IMO, the only noticeable difference it imparts is shockingly good bending and playability. My Parker's SS frets were easily the smoothest I've ever used, and it's why on my custom build I'm having made I went with SS frets.
Have you ever owned a guitar with stainless frets, Jerry?
David Collins
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
Your question includes a number of variables. Refretting with a different size wire includes so many things - the fit of the frets in the slots will change, which in turn leaves the neck stiffness subject to change. The setup will change, the nut will change, the feel on your fingers will change, the shape of the wire and contact points will change - there are a ton of things that will change in the course of any refret, much less one with a dramatic change in wire size.
So yes, it's pretty safe to say that the tone you get when you're done will have little to no chance of being exactly identical to where it was before. If in the course of all these changes one also uses frets of a different alloy, so many seem quick to jump to conclusions that the wire alloy bears primary responsibility. These conclusions are no only entirely unjustified, but in my experience appear to be fully incorrect.
So yes, your sound may change, but it will not be changed any differently with stainless vs nickel frets. It's just not a factor of significant influence in this situation.
Your question includes a number of variables. Refretting with a different size wire includes so many things - the fit of the frets in the slots will change, which in turn leaves the neck stiffness subject to change. The setup will change, the nut will change, the feel on your fingers will change, the shape of the wire and contact points will change - there are a ton of things that will change in the course of any refret, much less one with a dramatic change in wire size.
So yes, it's pretty safe to say that the tone you get when you're done will have little to no chance of being exactly identical to where it was before. If in the course of all these changes one also uses frets of a different alloy, so many seem quick to jump to conclusions that the wire alloy bears primary responsibility. These conclusions are no only entirely unjustified, but in my experience appear to be fully incorrect.
So yes, your sound may change, but it will not be changed any differently with stainless vs nickel frets. It's just not a factor of significant influence in this situation.
DreX
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
I also have a Parker with steel frets. They're much brighter, a lot more present. You'll think regular frets are dark and muddy in comparison. It's almost like trying to put the genie back in the bottle, because once you've heard stainless steel frets, you might wish all your guitars were stainless steel fretted, but they're not even sold that way, and you're not about to have them refretted. Ignorance i bliss. La la la.
I also have a Parker with steel frets. They're much brighter, a lot more present. You'll think regular frets are dark and muddy in comparison. It's almost like trying to put the genie back in the bottle, because once you've heard stainless steel frets, you might wish all your guitars were stainless steel fretted, but they're not even sold that way, and you're not about to have them refretted. Ignorance i bliss. La la la.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
Are the frets brighter or is the guitar a brighter guitar? Have you ever tried your parker with normal nickle frets?
Are the frets brighter or is the guitar a brighter guitar? Have you ever tried your parker with normal nickle frets?
DreX
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
It's a Parker Nitefly SA, somewhat different from most Parkers, like the Parker version of an HSS Strat. It has carbon fiber on the neck but not the body, and the body is a lot thicker than classic Flies. I blame the frets because they feel so much harder and less forgiving than nickel. The strings contact with the frets very precisely to the point where the string slips around on the fret with ease. It sounds and feels very much like metal guitar slides. It's a very distinct, metallic sort of presence that you don't get with harder / heavier woods, maple fret boards or rigid necks and bodies alone.
It's a Parker Nitefly SA, somewhat different from most Parkers, like the Parker version of an HSS Strat. It has carbon fiber on the neck but not the body, and the body is a lot thicker than classic Flies. I blame the frets because they feel so much harder and less forgiving than nickel. The strings contact with the frets very precisely to the point where the string slips around on the fret with ease. It sounds and feels very much like metal guitar slides. It's a very distinct, metallic sort of presence that you don't get with harder / heavier woods, maple fret boards or rigid necks and bodies alone.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
So then the answer is No.. you cant say for certain if its the guitar is its the frets.
So then the answer is No.. you cant say for certain if its the guitar is its the frets.
DreX
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
You might be right, materials might not matter at all. I'm sure they frets could be made out of yarn and it would sound pretty much the same.
You might be right, materials might not matter at all. I'm sure they frets could be made out of yarn and it would sound pretty much the same.
David Collins
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
Still far too may variables to credit direct or primary causation of differences. Especially with sound, you can't really compare different components on two different instruments (especially of different design and construction), and come away with any solid assurance of changes being solely due to one singular factor.
My position is based on this - over the last 12 years or so (since stainless wire first came available) I have done partial refrets on dozens of acoustic guitars with stainless, transitioning to original nickel frets somewhere around the 7th-10 the fret. To date, I have yet to find anyone able to identify where the transition occurs by sound, without being told where the change begins. More recently I refretted an electric guitar as a test/survey rig with a mix of stainless and nickel wire. We put 22 numbers in a bucket, pulled 6 out at random, and those six frets got stainless while the rest used nickel.
All the controls well in place - same guitar, same size and manufacturer of wire, all installed and dressed the same, player can move from one to the other in real time with no lapse, so it really presents the most ideal opportunity I feel possible to identify a difference if there is any. So far, no luck picking the odd ones out. We even hosted a luthiers gathering in our shop last weekend with a dozen or so builders, and converted a few believers when they found they couldn't hear a difference in a controlled blind comparison.
Still far too may variables to credit direct or primary causation of differences. Especially with sound, you can't really compare different components on two different instruments (especially of different design and construction), and come away with any solid assurance of changes being solely due to one singular factor.
My position is based on this - over the last 12 years or so (since stainless wire first came available) I have done partial refrets on dozens of acoustic guitars with stainless, transitioning to original nickel frets somewhere around the 7th-10 the fret. To date, I have yet to find anyone able to identify where the transition occurs by sound, without being told where the change begins. More recently I refretted an electric guitar as a test/survey rig with a mix of stainless and nickel wire. We put 22 numbers in a bucket, pulled 6 out at random, and those six frets got stainless while the rest used nickel.
All the controls well in place - same guitar, same size and manufacturer of wire, all installed and dressed the same, player can move from one to the other in real time with no lapse, so it really presents the most ideal opportunity I feel possible to identify a difference if there is any. So far, no luck picking the odd ones out. We even hosted a luthiers gathering in our shop last weekend with a dozen or so builders, and converted a few believers when they found they couldn't hear a difference in a controlled blind comparison.
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DreX
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
I have nothing to go on but the words of people who say they can't tell the difference, and I don't know how discriminating they are. More than one person who said they couldn't tell the difference had installed them on acoustic guitars, which have a "steely" sound to begin with, so it could be adding to a tonality that is already present to begin with, especially when the strings are new.
If the Nitefly SE was a little brighter, I'd blame any number of things, but it's so bright that it can't be any one thing. If the steel frets were replaced with nickel, it would still be a bright guitar, but I would expect it to have less metallic brightness, because the tactile experience of pressing the strings against the steel frets is so hard edged and unforgiving, a more metal on metal feel than with nickel frets.
I have nothing to go on but the words of people who say they can't tell the difference, and I don't know how discriminating they are. More than one person who said they couldn't tell the difference had installed them on acoustic guitars, which have a "steely" sound to begin with, so it could be adding to a tonality that is already present to begin with, especially when the strings are new.
If the Nitefly SE was a little brighter, I'd blame any number of things, but it's so bright that it can't be any one thing. If the steel frets were replaced with nickel, it would still be a bright guitar, but I would expect it to have less metallic brightness, because the tactile experience of pressing the strings against the steel frets is so hard edged and unforgiving, a more metal on metal feel than with nickel frets.
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
I've got stainless 6115's on my Music Man. It made it a little brighter and crisper sounding, but nothing you couldn't take care of by rolling the treble or presence back a bit on the amp. It's a small difference in tone, but a big one in playability. Bends, vibrato, and slides are effortless and easier to put more nuance into now. I'd do it to all my guitars if I could afford it.
I've got stainless 6115's on my Music Man. It made it a little brighter and crisper sounding, but nothing you couldn't take care of by rolling the treble or presence back a bit on the amp. It's a small difference in tone, but a big one in playability. Bends, vibrato, and slides are effortless and easier to put more nuance into now. I'd do it to all my guitars if I could afford it.
David Collins
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
I'd be willing to wager however, that if you were told it was a stainless refret but they actually used nickel, that you would have perceived the exact same differences. Joe Glaser has done comparisons similar to mine, where both nickel and stainless frets were installed in the same neck to be transitioned across in real time, and just like in my tests, no one was found able to identify a difference under these tight controls and close to ideal conditions as possible.
I'd be willing to wager however, that if you were told it was a stainless refret but they actually used nickel, that you would have perceived the exact same differences. Joe Glaser has done comparisons similar to mine, where both nickel and stainless frets were installed in the same neck to be transitioned across in real time, and just like in my tests, no one was found able to identify a difference under these tight controls and close to ideal conditions as possible.
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DreX
New member
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
I'm willing to concede that this is all true, but I don't see any proof that stainless steel and nickel sound identical either. Having so many people say they can't hear a difference is no more or less objective than people saying they can hear a difference.
I'm willing to concede that this is all true, but I don't see any proof that stainless steel and nickel sound identical either. Having so many people say they can't hear a difference is no more or less objective than people saying they can hear a difference.
Re: 6000 stainless jumbo frets & tone?
^ This much is true. So many people are convinced certain things make no difference, so they won't hear a difference irrespective of whether there is one or not. And sometimes you can be listening for the wrong thing. And then something you first considered to be 'all the same' suddenly opens out into a myriad of different subtle shades. I remember listening to Hotel California solo and not knowing 2 different guitars were playing the outtro. Then once I'd been told about the change, it was bloody obvious.
^ This much is true. So many people are convinced certain things make no difference, so they won't hear a difference irrespective of whether there is one or not. And sometimes you can be listening for the wrong thing. And then something you first considered to be 'all the same' suddenly opens out into a myriad of different subtle shades. I remember listening to Hotel California solo and not knowing 2 different guitars were playing the outtro. Then once I'd been told about the change, it was bloody obvious.
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