'78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

C

Chubtone

New member
Hey guys,
I just threw together a new parts guitar. It is a late 70's Charvel body made of hard ash, supposedly what eddie's Frankie guitar was made out of. The body weighs 5.25 lbs. I have a Floyd Rose off of a 1983 Kramer Pacer and the Floyd has the brass big block upgrade. The neck is a Musikraft one piece maple with vintage style single adjusting truss rod. Pickup is a Duncan '78.

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The whole time I was building this guitar I was afraid it was going to be "take your head off" bright. Hard ash, the consensus was very bright. Maple neck, bright. Floyd Rose trem, bright. So to combat this I put the brass big block on the Floyd to warm it up. I got the single adjust truss rod on the neck because it is supposed to be warmer sounding than maple necks with the dual truss rods.

So I throw this thing together and it plays killer and the body sounds big and resonant acoustically. When I finally plugged it in to my main amps, Mojave Peacemaker, Splawn Quick Rod, 1970 Marshall Super Lead and 1983 JCM 800, well the thing is a big, flubby, muddy, sludgy, loose mess. In comparison to my other guitars which all sound very good, the thing almost sounds like I am playing through a bass amp. No articulation in the lows. When I palm mute while soloing on the low strings there is no pick click, no articulation, no percussive thunk. Just loose and flubby. The highs are a bit too smooth too.

So anyway, I am a Seymour Duncan dealer and have a case full of pickups here. My other guitars have '78s or Custom, or CC or C5's in the bridges. All sound great in their own way including the alder bodied, vintage trem Warmoth with the '78 in it. That guitar sounds like Van Halen. This guitar sounds like Van Halen.... playing through Michael Anthony's amp:(

So do I try and put some A5 magnets in this pickup in this sludgy mess? Do I put in a '59 and wish I had a little more output? Do I make one of those hybrid VH type pickups? I really like this butt ugly guitar. It plays great and for some reason I love the looks of it. I just have to get it to sound as good as it plays. I am looking for an EVH type tone out of it and not a heavier type tone. I have those covered.
 
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Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

Doesn't look like it should be a electronics issue. LOL.

Although you could have a cold solder joint somewhere? Just a thought.

It would be awesome if you could post some sound clips. I'm waiting for the UPS guy to show up today with my '78. The specs on my Frankenstrat are pretty close to yours minus the Floyd. I went with a locking tuners, LSR nut and Trem-King setup.

It's a project I've been working on for about 3 months on and off. Today is the moment of truth after I stick that EVH in and plug it in for the first time. Now after reading your post, you've made me break out into a cold sweat!
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

How close is it to the strings? Keep that one backed away some to open it up. It could be that it's just too close to the strings.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

ErikH said:
How close is it to the strings? Keep that one backed away some to open it up. It could be that it's just too close to the strings.
Click to expand...

ErikH,
Thanks for the reply. It was closer to the strings the first night. The second night I backed it away a little and the total muddiness improved a little, but it was still loose and flubby. When I did that it made an improvement which makes me think there is hope for the guitar.
 
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Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

Chubtone said:
ErikH,
Thanks for the reply. It was closer to the strings the first night. The second night I backed it away a little and the total muddiness improved a little, but it was still loose and flubby. When I did that it made a marked improvement which makes me think there is hope for the guitar.
Click to expand...

That's cool. Don't forget to try adjusting the individual screw polepieces as well. Crank up the treble side a bit and lower the bass side. And of course, use your ears. ;)
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

ErikH said:
How close is it to the strings? Keep that one backed away some to open it up. It could be that it's just too close to the strings.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I had to do with mine. Lower than what you first might think but mine sounds great to me. Nothing like the OP's description.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

What value volume pot? And despite what it says, have you checked the pot's value with a meter?


I've not tried a 78 yet myself, but its an overwound A2 PAF, correct? All A2 is spongy to a certain point, especially when overwound. The BB3 is very much like that (9k-ish A2 uneven wind, and it's pretty much like a CC without as much output)

Then again, David Brays 78 clips are glorious so I'd look into the pot first and then go from there.

P.S. gorgeous strat, and unfortunately the linky no workie :(
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

I am kind of suspecting the A2's. It is soft and squishy in the lows. I thought A5 magnets out of a '59 might be an improvement right where I need it.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

Chubtone said:
So anyway, I am a Seymour Duncan dealer and have a case full of pickups here. My other guitars have '78s or Custom, or CC or C5's in the bridges. All sound great in their own way including the alder bodied, vintage trem Warmoth with the '78 in it. That guitar sounds like Van Halen. This guitar sounds like Van Halen.... playing through Michael Anthony's amp:(
Click to expand...

With a case full of pickups, you could try swapping until you find a pickup that gets along with the axe. JB? Full Shred? Don't get locked into the idea that it needs to sound exactly like EVH. If you hit on something that sounds great, go for it!
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

sounds to me the Floyd is the culprit.wasnt the '78 only used in the origial Frnkie for VH-1 with the vintage 6 point trem?
I havent heard of users here haveing great luck with the '78 in a floyd rose equipped guitar.
Im assembling a Vh-1 style guiatr too , but it'll have vintage style tremolo.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

If you're gonna assemble a VH1 style guitar, then it needs to be shaped like an Ibanez Destroyer. ;)

Jerry, the '78 wasn't made back then. The pickup is an old Gibson that had to be rewound, that's all. The '78 is supposedly a reproduction of that rewind.

Now, another option instead of A5 is a degaussed A5. It has nice qualities of both A2 and A5 tossed together. It's worth a shot if adjusting the screw poles and further adjustments don't do it.
 
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Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

Wow.
That's a beautiful guitar, I don't know why but I really really like it.
Congrats man

Apart from checking the pots and lowering the pickup I have no other ideas.

Also great clip you posted, sounds great.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

Well if we are going to get right down to it, I prefer the tone on VHII to VHI.

What is the best source for additional magnets?
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

I'd first confirm that it sounds better with a pickup that you have tested in a different guitar.

Maybe the brass trem block just gives out sound to the air and kills it in the guitar?

Either way, you need to confirm with a different pickup.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

From my experience, brass block + Floyd Rose = tonal goodness. I have one. I also have a Floyd with the stock block and it is not too bright at all.

It most likely is the pickup or how it's adjusted or it's plainly just the wood and the '78 just doesn't work well with it.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

I tried the 78 and also found it too muffled. I replaced it with an A2 hybrid, which really opened it up. My only beef is that the hybrid is a bit too hot and doesn't clean-up as well as I'd like when backing off the volume. One of these days I'm going to change the A2 hybrid to an A2-59. I tried an A2 59 in a guitar years ago and it sounded great (this was before I had the 78).

Since an A2 59 is easier to do than a hybrid, you might want to try the A2 59 first.
 
Re: '78 sounds loose and muddy in my EVH build?

MattPete said:
Since an A2 59 is easier to do than a hybrid, you might want to try the A2 59 first.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that 59 and APH share the same coils (except for amount of wind), so that would be a slightly overwound APH.

I still think that since Chubtone likes the '78 in a different guitar the first step is to slam a known-good pickup into this guitar.
 
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