80's death metal pickups?

[King IzzO)))]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

X2N has 3 magnets, like an Invader, as does the D-A-X.

Bill Steer used a Super3 in an Ibanez into a 5150 in Carcass, which is my benchmark for DM tones.

 

[TSE]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Where did get the wind readings for both pickups. I'd like to get that too, just for fun.

The ohm reading doesn't give you anything on output except that if it's on the hotter or lower side of output (roughly over or under 10kohms) The EQ reading SD and DM give to their pickups don't tell what they are compared to each other. All SD pickups seem to be scooped mids and DM has only one or two that come even close to that EQ-curve. They most likely use different scales.

IMO, the only way to determine which pup has more output is to play them both.

Btw, the X2N is pretty sick pup. It's not warm or bright but very even. It's the hottest pickup DM makes so I see no reason why DD should even have to be hotter. Both are fine pickups.

I have the X2N-7 on a doubleneck on a 7-string baritone neck.
http://www.optotek.fi/skitta/index.php?page=4 There is the picture gallery, Making of -sort of thing.

Right, not to get all pedantic, but DC resistance tells you how hot the wind is, the higher the hotter. There is a reason pickup companies provide the information in the specification portion of their products. Both DMZ and SD have different methods of conveying to a customer what their pickups may sound like, but one thing that is consistent is the DCR. Many if not all pup manufacturers use the parameter to give people an idea of output level of their pickups.

With that in mind, the DDs wind has more output on average because the DCR is, on average, 16.6K, and the X2N is 15.8K. Splitting hairs I know, but I didn't realize the X2N has more than one mag, I didn't know because I have never disassembled one. This will make the X2N sound more powerful. Done splitting hairs now:sword:

 

[Zhaggy]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Right, not to get all pedantic, but DC resistance tells you how hot the wind is, the higher the hotter. There is a reason pickup companies provide the information in the specification portion of their products. Both DMZ and SD have different methods of conveying to a customer what their pickups may sound like, but one thing that is consistent is the DCR. Many if not all pup manufacturers use the parameter to give people an idea of output level of their pickups.

With that in mind, the DDs wind has more output on average because the DCR is, on average, 16.6K, and the X2N is 15.8K. Splitting hairs I know, but I didn't realize the X2N has more than one mag, I didn't know because I have never disassembled one. This will make the X2N sound more powerful. Done splitting hairs now:sword:

No it doesn't. Not 100% anyway. Yes, it gives you pretty good idea if a pickups is hot or not and 99 times out of 100 the "guess" is right if it's hot or not. If you have a 15,5k and a 16,5k pickups you have no idea which is hotter just based on that DCR. I believe that everyone who actually makes pickups, like the people at SD, can confirm that. I've seen Evan Skopp explain that there are so many things that make pickups sound different or hotter than others.

I.E. If you use thinner wire vs. thicker wire on your winds, it makes a huge difference in the sound and DCR of the pickups. If you use one magnet, 3 magnets, strong or weak magnet. This I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the DD and X2N had different gauge wire and different number of winds. This would make them completely different kind of pickups. All you have is the DCR.

For example Dimarzio's Super 2 is 8,7k and output is 400mV yet it has more output than the Tone Zone which is 17,31k an output is 375mV

Or the Super 3 which is 25k and output 435mV but the D-Activator-X bridge is 14,51k and output 500mV.

Now why would they say it's hotter than the other if it really isn't. What the DCR will tell you about the pickups is more likely the rough EQ-curve, wheter it's bass/mid heavy (usually more DC) or bright (usully low DC). But that doesn't tell you that either accurately just the general direction. And of course magnets affect the tone very much also. A2 are USUALLY warmer than A5 and A5 is USUALLY warmer than ceramic. But again that's just the rough cut.

And one of the reasons that probably every pup manufacturer gives that DC reading is because it's SO EASY to measure, perhaps the EASIEST. Everyone of us can measure that but if you want to measure the resonant peak or the EQ-curve you'd need much more sophisticated equiptment.

 

[dominus]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Right, not to get all pedantic, but DC resistance tells you how hot the wind is, the higher the hotter. There is a reason pickup companies provide the information in the specification portion of their products. Both DMZ and SD have different methods of conveying to a customer what their pickups may sound like, but one thing that is consistent is the DCR. Many if not all pup manufacturers use the parameter to give people an idea of output level of their pickups.

Steve Morse Neck Model:

Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 250
DC Resistance: 21.00 Kohm

Steve Morse Bridge Model:

Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 450
DC Resistance: 9.94 Kohm


Care to guess which one is almost twice as hot?

 

[Chad]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

This thread is funny.

 

[Gplayerzzz]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Isn't the higher the DC the darker the pup?

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Nope. 10K of 42 will be darker than 16K of 44 awg, and with the same magnet probably more powerful. Magnet strength has just as much if not more to do with the output of a pickup than the coils.

The Morse bridge model is one of the highest output pickups dimarzio makes, but the coils are close to a PGb. Big strong ceramic magnet.

 

[dominus]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Nope. 10K of 42 will be darker than 16K of 44 awg, and with the same magnet probably more powerful. Magnet strength has just as much if not more to do with the output of a pickup than the coils.

The Morse bridge model is one of the highest output pickups dimarzio makes, but the coils are close to a PGb. Big strong ceramic magnet.

Speaking of which, I'd recommend the Steve Morse bridge model for death metal. I've got it in a basswood Strat and it's the deepest sounding (yet still clear and precise) pickup I own.

 

[John E Rokker]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

I would start with the Duncan Custom Sh-5 and if that's not doing it for you go for a magnet swap.

 

[dominus]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

I would start with the Duncan Custom TB-5 and if that's not doing it for you go for a magnet swap.

Fixed the model number for you.

 

[Aceman]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

I'm just not even going to be polite about this.

Dude - you are fighting the good advice of many here.

Bottom line: If you can't do "death metal" with the Duncan Distortion, either you can't figure out how to set the knobs on the amp (and most here have no love for the Spider series) or you you just can't play it.

I'm not going to abuse the Spider - I'm SURE that is completely capable of sculpting a serious death/black/doom/necro/norse/whatever metal you want.

The DD should easily allow you to boost the bass to oblivion, and still keep it evil/sadistic/mean/nasty as you want to be.

#1 SERIOUSLY work on how to set the knobs
#2 Wait for the new amp
#3 Adjust the pup slightly

And if after all that - it still doesn't work for you, come back and ask again.

Regarding X2N - I have had one and love the DD. I think the X2N is hotter than the Distortion based on experiments through a Pro Jr. Maybe that's just me. They are both hot.

Also: These days - there is so much freaking gain in the amp, that MAY be your problem. You are caught in the Stupid Hot Pup Stupid Loop. I bet a Screamin' Demon would sound better than anything through the INSANE model on that Spider - and not with the gain cranked to 11 either....

Just saying, PAF Pro is NOT a mega gain pup. Mega gain pup plus mega gain amp usually equals mega crap.

 

[John E Rokker]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Mega gain pup plus mega gain amp usually equals mega crap.

HEHHEH! Love it! that's gonna be my new sig.

 

[Gplayerzzz]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Speaking of which, I'd recommend the Steve Morse bridge model for death metal. I've got it in a basswood Strat and it's the deepest sounding (yet still clear and precise) pickup I own.

Tell me about the EQ on it. Are they bright? Whats the mids/bass/treble like?

 

[TSE]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Steve Morse Neck Model:

Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 250
DC Resistance: 21.00 Kohm

Steve Morse Bridge Model:

Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 450
DC Resistance: 9.94 Kohm


Care to guess which one is almost twice as hot?

The one that has the more powerful magnet as opposed to the air-bucker tech or weak magnet or both applied to the neck model.

I myself have a Custom with a double thick ceramic mag in the bridge of my main guitar and a JB in the neck with the half air mod. And they balance perfectly output wise.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

I'm looking for something darker,bassier, and more "evil" than the DD but still retaining the clarity and tightness of the DD.

The only thing you need to do is raise the p'up closer to the lower strings until you get the "evilness" you need, then level it raising it closer to the higher strings side until it balances. Done!

And while you're at it, don't forget to get some thick strings so it doesn't flab out when downtuned. These are extremely good:

http://store.daddario.com/category/339134/EXL148_Extra_Heavy_12-60

Easy Peasy! No need to change no p'up. The one you already have is capable to deliver what you want and then some.

HTH,

 

[Sodom616]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

I've tried that already.It sounds muddier and extremely noisy makes leads impossible. But, I've found the sweet spot for the height, and it sounds amazing...I'll stick with the DD until i get my new amp.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

But, I've found the sweet spot for the height, and it sounds amazing...I'll stick with the DD until i get my new amp.

That's more like it!

 

[Aceman]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

The only thing you need to do is raise the p'up closer to the lower strings until you get the "evilness" you need, then level it raising it closer to the higher strings side until it balances. Done!

And while you're at it, don't forget to get some thick strings so it doesn't flab out when downtuned. These are extremely good:

http://store.daddario.com/category/339134/EXL148_Extra_Heavy_12-60

Easy Peasy! No need to change no p'up. The one you already have is capable to deliver what you want and then some.

HTH,

Thank you for that excellent treatise on my item #3

 

[Aceman]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

HEHHEH! Love it! that's gonna be my new sig.

Thank you sir. Only took me until I was 35 or so to figure that out...


I LIKE mega ceramic pups for the tone, the eq curves, and responsiveness.

And I have been turing down the gain and they sound FANTASTIC!

 

[Sodom616]

Re: 80's death metal pickups?

Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
The only thing you need to do is raise the p'up closer to the lower strings until you get the "evilness" you need, then level it raising it closer to the higher strings side until it balances. Done!

And while you're at it, don't forget to get some thick strings so it doesn't flab out when downtuned. These are extremely good:

http://store.daddario.com/category/3...ra_Heavy_12-60

Easy Peasy! No need to change no p'up. The one you already have is capable to deliver what you want and then some.
HTH,

I live in dubai.....all they sell here are crappy 9-10gauges. 10gauges on standard tune is to thin for me, i prefer playing with 11's on standard (I was lucky and found 1 set). Damn this country.....