A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

[54stratlover]

I have to chuckle about the "I hate" threads. I remember when I was a young & $poor$ player and I always thought having a Marshall would be "THE CURE" to all that musically ailed me. I got a marshall, had the good guitars, and then I figured out that I really needed to work on my chops. It wasn't so much the gear I was playing, but how I was playing the gear, my overall technique.
The big eye opener for me was when I was in a cover band. I and my fellow band mates and other local guitar players would always go and check out the bands playing in town, especially the out of town bands. You could pick us out of the crowd, a group of guys setting by ourselves with arms crossed dissecting the band that was playing. I think that is when guys are most like women. To be honest with myself, I think we were a bit catty. I remember in particular this guy that was playing phenominally and had great tone. One of those guys that really blows you out of the water. Between sets we (the guitar players) all went to meet him and check out his rig. He was playing a Marshall valvestate through a 4x12 with a frankenstrat style guitar. For pedals he had a boss EQ and a Wah. I was stunned. The guy was super humble also. We became loose friends, and I always went to see him when he was in town. I had played through, and HATED valvestate amps. i found that that said more about me than it did marshall valvestate amps.
Through the years I have had occasion to see people get amazing tone out of very unamazing equipment. Don't get me wrong, I am a tube snob/tone snob to the bone. But I always find it to be a personal challenge to sound the best I can on whatever I have available to me. Over time I have found that I can get "my" sound on a variety of guitar amp combonations. I have found a few good amps at pawn stores this way that I would have never thought twice about. Old 1x10, and 1x12 combos and the like. I have also found that I can make a Seth lover pup get a heavyness comparable to Slayer/Metallica/Zakk Wylde. I try to look it as a personal weakness if i find a reason to dog a piece of equipment. I also personally challenge myself to sound the best I can on whatever i am playing. I have a few habits/weakness' that I havn't been able to break. One of which is not liking or using dod pedals. But I rarely dog brands of equipment in a sweeping manner. The day I do, I will find a guy that blows me out of the water with that piece of equipment. I challenge everyone to sound the best they can on whatever they have, in the end it will help your playing for a variety of reasons.

 

[Artie]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Excellent post.

(I can't really add anything to it.)

 

[Grandor]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

You just have to love it when you hear great tone through gear you thought was 'inferior'. :dance:

 

[Norman_T]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Good post. I won't repeat what I said in another thread (re: The Golden Age etc started by Beandip) but esentially if you have honed and crafted your skills as a number of people have done through the years of playing you don't need gimmicks but just whats in your fingers and your heart. Whilst I am fortunate to have played and own some high quality stuff, these days the equipment is very good and affordable and you can get some very good sounds out of a relatively cheap guitar. It does not matter to me whether you play a $100 or a $10,000 guitar.

 

[Curly]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

I'll ditto what Artie said.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Good post.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Good post. I won't repeat what I said in another thread (re: The Golden Age etc started by Beandip) but esentially if you have honed and crafted your skills as a number of people have done through the years of playing you don't need gimmicks but just whats in your fingers and your heart. Whilst I am fortunate to have played and own some high quality stuff, these days the equipment is very good and affordable and you can get some very good sounds out of a relatively cheap guitar. It does not matter to me whether you play a $100 or a $10,000 guitar.

It's true. Low and mid-level instruments are amazingly good these days.

I remember a friend using a hard ash strat and a peavey solid state amp, and getting great sounds. His idea of moving up gear-wise was a valvestate. And he would have made it sing.

It's all in the hands. A friend of mine has a small stable of very cool amps, and he's currently toting a cheesy solid state combo. He still sounds like him...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Yep, it's definitely true. We can be anal about gear, as many of us are, but the reality is that you can't fake being a good player. If your mind and hands can't make a Squier sound good, they can't make a Custom Shop Strat sound any better.

It's almost comical sometimes to see a guy who's just phenomenal....someone who just floors you......then you talk to him and he tells you he's playing a Jap strat that some guy left at his house, he doesn't even know what tubes are in his amp, he hasn't changed his strings in a month, and all the knobs are missing on his 1 OD pedal.
I saw this guy at a blues gig in Berkeley, Ca and never forgot it. Years later, I see that he's playing nice gear, and his name is Joe Lewis Walker and the Bosstalkers.

 

[AcidBurn]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Everytime I start to hate my gear my old roommate shows up and just totally amazes me using my old ass Peavey bandit and Kramer strat copy(with SD's).

 

[matt99camero]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

All true. If I see someone playing with $10000 worth of gear but they don't have the chops, the only thing I'm impressed with is their gear. Even if someone who can play is using the $10000 in gear, I get even more impressed when someone is playing a cheap guitar and amp and they sound awsome. I have fallen into the " if I get the best gear I will sound better" but thats really not true. It takes the chops to make the gear sound good weather it be cheap or expensive.

 

[Indie P Bass]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Me, I know I don't play good. I'm adequit at best. But, my gear is what makes me tolerable. Back when I would always be like, "I don't have a guitar amp," my rig would be my Ibanez or Epiphone, a Boss DS-1 and usually the bassits's amp. Now that I have my Mar-Vox rig, people actually think I'ma better player than back then, and that's cuase I have tone. To be a good guitarist you need to things, good tone and good chops. I have one and a quater and it works out for me. So, there's my story.

But, I totally respect when people make crappy gear sound good, but, I've always been to shows where people make crappy gear sound crappier or good gear sound crappy. Like, at the Wheaton Town Theater, I saw a band open for the band I went to see, the guitarist was using a Rogue strat knockoff through a Marshall solidstate half stack... it sounded HORRIBLE! He played great, but, I couldn't stand it. It was buzzy and harsh. Finally, someone from the other bands came out and said to him, "Use my Les Pual, you'll do a lot better," and it still didn't help to much.

I guess my point is, even with chops, you can't make bad gear sound good.

But, for a while, I was doing what Stratlover said to. My guitar amp was a 15 watt solidstate squier from the 80's. It had a very "Crate-y" quality to it's tone (with a hole in the speaker, too, I might add... WAHAHAHA! I hate the cheap crates) but, I always somehow made it sing. I was told by a kid in my US Gov class that that thing sounded better than most tube amps he'd heard after he heard me play. And you know why? Cuase I learned what knobs to manipulate and what pedals to use to make it sound it's best. I think that overall... what makes great tone is knowing your gear. I knew my squier, I could make it sound good. That guy knows his Valvestate, he makes it sound good. My friend knows his mesa, he makes it sound great.

There! There's my point! Except in the case of the Rogue guitar with Marshall SS... that was disasterous.

 

[nuntius]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

I completely agree.

 

[texasguitarslinger]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

I concur :22:

 

[matt99camero]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Well I mean I have only been playing for a little over a year and a half so I'm still learning. If you put a $5000 Les paul in my hands and a $150 Epiphone LP special my tone might be better with the real LP but my playing is not going to suddenly get better because I have an expensive guitar. I would rather listen to someone who has the chops but has crappy tone than someone who has beautiful tone but can't play worth a crap. But I guess if I did have to listen to someone who can't play worth a flip, having tone but no chops is a better combo than no tone and no chops.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

The original point was that tone is mostly in the hands of the player. I concur. Remember Jeff Healey? He recorded his first two albums (& maybe more) on Squier Strats. It's what he liked to play.

Ted Nugent used to tell a story about taking a new backing act on the road. They had this amazing guitarist who had fantastic tone that Ted loved. So, eventually, Ted found an opportunity to play through his rig. When he did, the tone sounded EXACTLY like









Ted Nugent. It was all in the hands. BTW. That guitarist whose rig Ted played? EVH.

 

[Spark]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

Another Nugent story I heard was about some benefit type show with a bunch of notables playing. Steve Vai went up to Ted's guitar tech after his set and asked to see Ted's rack set up so he could see how he was getting all those great sounds and the tech told him to go look at Nugent's hands.

Conversely, I was checking out my old drummers band and I was psyched to hear the guitar player's tone since he had an old LP and JCM800. He sounded like crap.

 

[inter]

Re: A comment on the "I Hate Threads"

I've heard a story that the first demo VH did with Gene Simmons was kinda average (for VH) and in no way represented or caputured how he and the band sounded live.

Apparently, Ed was using Ace's rig.

I agree that dismissing some gear as crap is often a bad case of denial, however hearing yourself with what you percieve as great tone can make a huge difference to the fluidity and timing of your playing, especially in a band situation. It allows you to focus and absorb what you and the guys playing with you are your doing, without worrying about '****ty sound'.

I know bad tone makes me play safe and I end up pulling out my 'good ol' licks', I play next to no fills and generally end up bored to tears.