A different setup idea

[RW James]

...well different for me anyway.

I normally play a 60 watt Hartke guitar amp with a mic into the sound system. For this setup, 60 watts is more than enough.

But for the summer, we've been playing outdoors and because we have a smaller sound system - we've only been mic'ing the vocals with guitars and drums just raw. I like the sound, but I've not been coming out enough over the other instruments and vocals.

I told my wife that next year, if we do the same thing, I may need to get a half-stack (always good to plant the seed early). Anyway, she agreed, but we can't afford it right now (we had to buy a new car). Then she came up with an idea - "Is there anyway you can play through both your amps?" (I have a Line 6 65 watt amp standing by as a backup - I don't like the sound as much as the Hartke.)

I've been thinking about this, and I think I may be able to make it work. I have two options:

1. My pedal board has a stereo phaser on the end of the chain that feeds directly into a stereo volume control. I've never used the stereo aspect of these pedals, but I think it might work. I'm just not sure if the phaser still ouputs to stereo if the pedal is off - I need to test that tonight.

2. I have a small mixer that I could put between the board and the amps that would easily split into stereo.

I know I'm going to have a little trouble matching the outputs from the two amps - one being a modeling amp and the other being pretty much a straight amp - but if I can get it balanced I think it may work pretty well.

Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions? Will it sound like 125 watts?

 

[ErikH]

Re: A different setup idea

Real simple solution, mic your amp, especially for outdoor gigs. I can see going un-mic'ed indoors, but outdoors it's almost a must no matter what you're using. Or run DI in to the board using the Behringer Ultra-G from your amp's Line Out or Speaker Out (yes, it can handle the speaker out, then go from the DI back to the speaker). I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Pedals that have stereo capability won't run in stereo unless they are on. The only pedals I'd keep on to run to two amps would be either a delay or reverb, possibly a chorus as long as the settings are mild.

It'll up your volume some running two amps, but don't expect to get a whole lot more out of it. It might be just enough though.

 

[RW James]

Re: A different setup idea

Thanks Eric. We have a 24 channel board inside that handles everything there, but it's not portable. We are using a 6 channel board for outdoors and every channel is being used for vocals.

I might be able to run my guitar through the board, but then I was concerned that I would be too high compared to the other guitar, bass and drums.

I'll try the small mixer thing into both amps and see what happens. If nothing else it will look cool to have all that gear on stage :banana:

 

[ErikH]

Re: A different setup idea

Ahh, the old portability thing. Yeah, that's understandable. That's a good idea with your little mixer. At least you'll be able to somewhat level things out.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: A different setup idea

Do the amps have effects loops? With effects loops you can set up one as a master and the other one as a slave.

A simple Whirlwind a/b/y switcher will allow you to switch between amps--or have both on. Several companies make these.

And most stereo pedals like a chorus provide outputs to both amps all the time.

Get some cords, and start experimenting!

Bill

 

[RW James]

Re: A different setup idea

Okay, I tried out my idea last night.

The good news: The stereo phaser DOES split the sound even when the phaser is off. So I can get two outputs from my pedal board.

The bad news: I ran one output to my Hartke head and the other to a little Crate practice amp. No sound from the Crate and a loud buzz from the Hartke. I played with the cables, changing them around a bit, but not getting any changes. After a while I'm smelling burning electronics.

I suspect a reverse polarity with one of the amps. They are both using grounded plugs - and there is no polarity switch like on the old amps - and I am plugging them both into a Fuhrman power conditioner.

So on a hunch, I take the Crate out and replace it with an Orange practice amp I have. Everything works perfectly!

So I guess the Crate has a different ground than the other amps. ???

I'm a little afraid to try the Line 6, because I'm afraid the sensitive circuits will just fry under any stress - no guts no glory, I guess.

I don't suppose there is any way to test polarity before I plug it in?

By the way, both the Crate and the Hartke seem to be okay - but I know something was burning in there.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: A different setup idea

Did you try the Crate by itself? Or with the Phaser?

Some amps are grounded differently, or you may have some problem with the pedal. (DC leaking to ground?)

Good luck!

Bill

 

[RW James]

Re: A different setup idea

Did you try the Crate by itself? Or with the Phaser?

Some amps are grounded differently, or you may have some problem with the pedal. (DC leaking to ground?)

Good luck!

Bill

Yeah... I unplugged the Hartke and everything worked with the Crate alone. The only combination that doesn't work is the Crate with the Hartke (I didn't try the Orange and Crate - no point really except to prove the point.)

I'm hoping the Crate is the only odd one and that the Line 6 will work.

I'm thinking of putting an ohm meter on the input ground and one of the power cord blades and see if I can find the ground that way, then check all my amps.

Shouldn't there be an industry standard for this kind of thing?

 

[Bludave]

Re: A different setup idea

Another optin is to plug your mixer into one of the channels on your current board. If you have 6 channels on the board and 4 on the mixer you will have a total of 9 (you will losse one plugging the mixer into the board). I have no personal experience doing this, but I have seen many live bands do it.

 

[RW James]

Re: A different setup idea

Another optin is to plug your mixer into one of the channels on your current board. If you have 6 channels on the board and 4 on the mixer you will have a total of 9 (you will losse one plugging the mixer into the board). I have no personal experience doing this, but I have seen many live bands do it.

Actually, it's easier than that - the mixers have tape in/outs that can be used to daisy chain them.

I talked with our sound guy about all this (he also happens to be my son-in-law) and he wants to mic my amp. But if we can't mic everything, I'm not sure that is the best way to go. And the speaker setup we have for outdoors is just a coupe of Yamaha 12" with horns - I'm wondering if we'll overload.

If we could move the big indoor setup outside, it would be great - but I don't see that happening.

I'm going ahead with this first idea - it's something I've wanted to try anyway and it seems to be working. But I may bring along the small mixer, just in case.

 

[RW James]

Re: A different setup idea

I did it! And I gigged with it last night...

I rigged the Hartke and Line 6 amps together using my pedal board. What a huge sound!

What was really fun was channel switching and getting an interesting combination of sounds. Some worked better than others. Mostly, because I didn't have time to experiment - I played the Line 6 absolutely clean and switched the Hartke between clean and crunch - throwing the Bad Monkey in for effect.

Anyway, I really felt like I had the power I wanted. When I get a chance I'll take some pictures of the rig.

Thanks for all your help and ideas...