A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

JeffB

JeffB

Let it B
I've been doing a little thinking lately...I know *SCARY*...about older gear...

stuff from the 80s mostly..but late 70s too..

This is our "new" vintage market. And it cracks me up...and this is why..

How many of us, day in and day out say on thse forums.."I'm sure glad we have gear like we do now, compared to how it used to be back in the 80s..stuff is SOOOO much better these days"...

If thats the case..then why are we seeing a market and prices continuing to climb for things such as

Japanese Squiers
Peavey VTMs and other "teal face" amps...even Bandits, etc
Old Charvel MIJs
The MIJ Clone company stuff..Pauls...SGs...Strats..Teles...
Fender Japan....
Old Kramers (MIJ/ESP)
Old Ibanez Destroyers like the one I had
Randall RG30/50/60/80/100/120 Heads and combos
Marshall JMPs
Marshall 900s

the list goes on...


I can speak for sev of those items personally

1) My first real strat was a Jap Squier, and I can assure you it was as nice as any production MIA put out there today and FAR FAR better than any of the MIM stuff

2) Charvel MIJs...:laugh2: Would put ALOT of guitars to shame..regardless of price...I had 4, IIRC..M4/6/7 and a 750XL or 850..cant remember which. I prefered these over the MIA jacksons I owned. They were PHENOMENAL instruments.

3) JMP MVs.. don't need much explanation....it was just the lack of versatility which killed it and the 2203/2204. But with versatility, Marshall lost it's "soul"

4) early Marshall 900s. Everyone hated them...but I think up until recently, people did not realize these were prolly the last well built, fair priced marshalls (even new). There are some good usable tones in them, even if they cant crunch and growl like previous marshalls. And they are FAR FAR better than a TSL

5) Japanese Clones: My 1981 Destroyer pretty much owned all but a couple SPENDY guitars. Oh sure it was beat up...but it dripped quality. And tone. And it played incredibly well. How I remember saying I did not want a japanese POS like this when I was a teenager:no: See also #1 and # 2.

6) Those old Randall RGs. I played one of these recently again. A RG50 combo to be exact. I tell ya what. Somewhere along the line: Randall lost its mind. Cos these old amps are SOLID (USA), and tonally are DANG FINE amps if you are looking for Marshall type crunch. I mean these don't sound OK, they SOUND GOOD (with some volume). They crunch hard like a 2203. It *IS* SS, but its not nearly as buzzy as a Valvestate or MGs, or current Randall RG series amps (RG2 series anyway)

7) Norlin era pauls: You may not like the design changes like volutes, and pancakes and whatnot...but lets face it..just like it is today with Gibson, Norlin built some GREAT gibsons, and some really bad ones. My 76 reissue Explorer(from 1976) and my early 80s custom shop are among the best gibsons I've ever owned and I would LOVE to have them back.


So are we just more wise in our old age?

I think that is a big part of it.

I also think..at the time...pre-MTV..pre HUge endorsement deals for the latest Video-wonder..before we had things like home computers in every house...and the internet....before musical instruments became a HUGE HUGE HUGE industry....Manufacturers actually had something to prove. People like Randall and Ibaneze and Peavey, and Charvel..because they didn't have such a big name..had to compete HARD for your dollar. And they produced some GREAT quality products..but many people..at least here in the states..brushed them off...Japanese? bah...Peavey? Randall? thats cheap SS kids practice stuff.

Now we have people:

paying $1100 for a mint Destroyer 555 or a Tokai Les Paul.

Peavey VTMs, Bravos, Bandits Ultras, etc..going for as much or more as similar new items..same with Randall.

MIJ Charvels? Nuff said...

JMPs and 900s going up and up each months..,

70s Strats...heh...


Not all of this is a "collector" market either. Not in the true sense anyways..like guys who collect Bursts...or 50s strats. Nope most of these items are snapped up by guys like you and me.


Just a rambling thought....what do *YOU* think?
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

yeah, you hit alot of it right on the head ... the definition of good gear is fluid and every point in time seems to have a chauvinism about their definition ... and i think boomers, with their cultural biases and marketplace influence, set the trends ... so aging boomers now are harkening back to 'vintage' and vintage inspired gear ... and the timeframe for vintage slides ...

there are more than one path to good tone ... that stuff from 'back in the day' certainly served its purpose ... alot of it was crap ... whatcha gonna do :D

t4d
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

RE Charvel MIJs: for the record, when new almost ALL of these instruments retailed for <1k USD, some for nearly 2. Adjusted for inflation they would be sold new for between 1,5k and 2,5k today ;)

Just adding this because everyone sees these on eBay for 300$ and assumes they´re cheap imports. Au contraire, they were and are top of the line guitars ;)
 
Last edited:
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

i sure am happy that i bought my charvel when i did :D
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

i'm still looking for a MIJ Charvel! never seem to be able to find one with a really nice price tag though
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

^^ That´s because they essentially no longer exist, as people have realized the quality aned esp. the "bang for the buck" that these represent.

I paid 320€ for my M6, and haven´t seen one under 600€ in at least 2 years.
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

well, they still go for semi cheap, to mid priced, to "expencive" in the us nowadays.

in europe it's a totaly diferent game.
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Yeah, there´s no such thing as a "cheap" guitar in europe, at least not as far as price structure goes :laugh2:
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

well, i got my amp for cheap


i also got my guitar for cheap..


i can honestly say i have never paid more than 400€ for anything gear related in my life.. and i got quality stuff :D


you got a charvel chainsaw case sitting over there anywhere empty, by chance?
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

I think it's a bit of a generalized statement that everything we have today is all we would ever need.

Fact of the matter is that most of us have been priced out of the vintage market. The reason why alot of folks are looking at 70's Strats and Les Pauls is because ones from the 60's are totally unapproachable.

With that said, vintage guitars just have a vibe and sound to them that no new instruments will have for another twenty plus years. My 73' Gibson Les Paul Deluxe sounds different than the new reissues.

Most of what I see on that list are things I think are just ****. The fact that someone's actively seeking out a Peavey VTM makes me chuckle; I owned one...I paid less than a hundred bucks for it. It was a peice of **** and I unloaded it for a profit as soon as I found some sucker than wanted it. I feel the same way about the Kramers, but then again those guitars are typically for a market I have no interest in. I have no need to try and re-live the hair-metal days and think anyone that wants to that lived through it never moved on in life and those that didn't are getting a very revisionist view of how god-awful the era and that music was and is.

The bottom line is that a good axe is a good axe. We were smart enough to recognize that. I bought my two Grecos before the market went up and got them both for under a grand. Within a year of buying they appreciated by about a quarter. Word got out.
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Don`t tell me the 80`s was`nt bad,we`re surrounded by stupid kids made back in the 80`s.....!!!!
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Good observations, Jeff. You can also look at it from what some of our heroes played. I remember seeing Ace Frehley and wanting a guitar like that, then Eddie, and wanting a guitar like that, and so on. It just so happens, many of them were playing guitars from the 70's and early 80's.

I know a lot of people dislike 70's Strats, but I kinda like 'em myself. I like the feel of the necks, the weight (although they are pretty heavy). Each time I've played one they felt pretty darn nice. There's been a few that were dogs but that's with anything.

Tell ya what, I'd take a Norlin Les Paul if it was priced right and played well. And to be honest, I could care less when it was made as long as it's got a good chunk of wood.

However, the majority of my playing days as of right now is the 90's so I naturally look at gear from then, especially the early-mid 90's. I love the 90's Strats, and those early 90's Marshalls (pre-5881 tube changeover). The MkIII's are holding steady as of late. Slow increases here and there but not huge amounts. I'll never part with mine but I watch the prices for when I want to get the 50 watt version. :D

And Skarey is right too, the 60's instruments are priced out of reach for a majority of us so the next logical step is the 70's and 80's. We can't forget either that the young players from those days are no older and can afford to snag up gear they wanted but never had. With increased demand comes increased prices in some cases.
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Skarekrough said:
....have no need to try and re-live the hair-metal days and think anyone that wants to that lived through it never moved on in life and those that didn't are getting a very revisionist view of how god-awful the era and that music was and is....
Click to expand...

Its a sad thing SRV and Segovia are not alive today so we could tell them they need to "move on" as well.

How about Clapton? He hasn't moved on either..what with his whole blues shtick.

Or All the boutique Vox clone builders?...

or Marshall clone builders?..

or Fender clone builders?

or Anyone else who is trying to capture something "old"?

I don't wanna come off sounding like a jerk..we all have our opinions, but this "superiority"thing you throw out everytime the 80s comes up is getting old, bro. I could say the same thing to hundreds of forum members here who play in "classic rock" bands doing hendrix , cream, skynyrd, Stones, Zep SRV, CCR, etc covers...


or DKs covers...

or Pearl Jam covers..

or Nirvana covers...

or Chuck Berry covers..

but I don't...

"moving on" is not a necessity in a musicians life: something that determines value, validity, or worth. It is a personal desire (or not) and the only parameters that are meaningful are self-imposed... Not spelled out by ANYONE else.

I am no fan of the the majority of Hair Metal either....but If some guy wants to play Dokken for the rest of his life...or Ratt...or Iron Maiden (cough) or GnR , so be it. It doesn't make them any better or worse a muscian than myself, yourself, or anyone else out there playing.

I've got no use for a Floyded Charvel either, but the fact remains they were solidly built, great playing/sounding instruments And I could pick one up and play any kind of revolutionary new music, or play hendrix covers, or Jazz with it. The wood doesn't care what song I'm playing or if I have "moved on".

So can we all discuss the GEAR please without making generalizing blanket statements about an entire decade/genre of music? :)
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

ya istarted to notice guitars that were once thought of as junk started to hit high prices... in the mid 90's i could of bought a 1984/5-ish Kramer Baretta, non-tilt back hockey stick headstock, rosewood board, all for $300 with case.... Now the same guitar is going for over $1200 in any condition almost....

Squier Strats from 1982-86 are getting close to $600 around Toronto.... some fine condition 57 reissue like Squiers i've seen with prices close to $700 Canadian....

Hiwatt amps was the first product i saw take a huge jump in prices... the late 80's they could be bought for next to nothing because they were not Marshalls.... i turned down many heads in the 80's as i was saving for a Marshall 800 or a rack system... but i never got the money for that rack system and i turned down at least 4 Hiwatt heads in the $300-$400 range... In the mid 90's they started to sell again and the prices shot high.... $1500 for a 70's Cab and $1500 for a 70's head is not out of the question these days around here in Toronto


Back in the 80's there was a lot of junk guitars... plywood overseas stuff... being painted pretty and with floyd knock offs people bought a lot of awful guitars... i did... my first "good" electric was a Kramer Striker from 87... i finally threw away the sales slip last summer, but i bought it new for $469 back then plus taxes in Canada put it over $500.... If i knew then what i know now of course things would of been different... But i saw the Floyd and the fancy paint and thought this could be a great guitar....

But there was some great guitars in the 80's as well... my MIJ 1987 Charvel that i bought for $200 a few years ago is almost new!!!! The frets are original and no signs of wear... someone had bought it in the 80's and never learned how to play... saddly it has a ding in the body and a small chip out of the point of the headstock, which can't be seen from the front of the guitar.. But it has the nicest neck!!!!!! and the fact this thing is like new old stock!!!!!! Wish it was not dinged, but the store said if it was not dinged they would of sold it for much much much more....
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

JeffB said:
So can we all discuss the GEAR please without making generalizing blanket statements about an entire decade/genre of music? :)
Click to expand...

Yeah but only if we can all agree that all 80's hair metal sucks.

nah i'm jay to the kzay. :banana: Anyway...

I think a lot of the reason these formerly 'budget' guitars are going up in price are dudes like me! Every day a new high-school aged dude gets a cheap imported copy of his hero's guitar (like me and my BC Rich a few years back) and gets on the 'net to figure out how to make it sound right. He'd eventually learns what makes guitars sound the way they do just by spending time on a few forums, and can eventually conclude based on the BUILD and not the NAME what kind of guitar he needs.

It probably used to be, (too young to know for sure) if you wanted the tone of a mahagoney body and a set neck and two nice humbuckers your choices were a Gibson or a cheaper Gibson. But now that all of the 'secrets' are out and there are companies like PRS and Schecter -- you know, basic Strat shape, Gibson build -- we have a better understanding of tone. The search isn't for a Les Paul and a Marshall anymore...it's for a 'crunchy set-neck single-cutaway guitar with humbuckers and a decent British tube amp.'

Haha we've just gotten our noses deep deep down in the guitar industry's business and figured out what was what. That's why we're seeing 'diamonds in the rough' from the past, and it's why some of you guys might call this a 'new golden era' for gear...between the $99 Valve Jr. head being an absolute tone factory and sites like www.rondomusic.net cranking out decent stuff for insanely low prices, it's almost like the guitar industry couldn't be in a better place.

-X
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

JeffB said:
Its a sad thing SRV and Segovia are not alive today so we could tell them they need to "move on" as well.

How about Clapton? He hasn't moved on either..what with his whole blues shtick.
Click to expand...

I think there's a distinct difference between the concept of a music or art form being institutionalized by performers and someone attempting to bring back something that happened and then died for a very explicit and necessary reason.

So can we all discuss the GEAR please without making generalizing blanket statements about an entire decade/genre of music? :)
Click to expand...

If you were so interested in it this message would of landed in my PM's.

And if it would please you I will gladly go back and remove my post and discontinue participating in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

It goes in 10 year cycles. In the mid 90's, you'd have to sell your Charvel, JCM900, Mesa MKIIB, or ADA MP-1 for a fraction of what it was worth. Now, the generation that were children in the 90's, are gravitating towards those 80's gems.

I take the 80's vintage market seriously, especially since I know that gear well, and which ones will skyrocket in price. I played it all, so I know which ones were the true gems. Some of it's not my bag, but I still recognize what will rise in price on the vintage market.

I scored my mint Jubilee fullstack for $1400 in the year 2000, and now those heads alone are going for $1900. I plan on keeping it as a fun collectible I can play, but I'd never take it out of the house. Maybe someday, I'll cash out of it for $8000-$10,000, when the only mint one with both matching cabs is the one I have.
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Gearjoneser said:
Maybe someday, I'll cash out of it for $8000-$10,000, when the only mint one with both matching cabs is the one I have.
Click to expand...

you bastard!!!


so this means i should start saving now? :laugh2:
 
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

Skarekrough said:
I think there's a distinct difference between the concept of a music or art form being institutionalized by performers and someone attempting to bring back something that happened and then died for a very explicit and necessary reason.
Click to expand...

C'mon Skarey :laugh2: ...So what you are saying is: it's OK for some guy to re-hash blues for the past 40 years... But not someone re-hashing an "art form" you don't care for? (personally I don't see music as an art form, but whatever..)

God knows I am totally sick of the umpteenth performer who sounds like the love-child of SRV and Hendrix, but I'm no Ceasar and it's not my place to give a "thumbs down" or a "thumbs up" in the Arena.

And who said anything about bringing back 80s music? I certainly did not.:eek13:

If you were so interested in it this message would of landed in my PM's.
Click to expand...

I did not feel it neccessary to pull you aside like I would my 7 year old and whisper in his ear about something he said I did not care for while in public. We are both adults, and this is a discussion forum.

EDIT: and No. Not asking for you to remove anything. Or discontinue your input.
 
Last edited:
Re: A Gear Thread..mostly for the "older" crowd

WhoFan said:
Back in the 80's there was a lot of junk guitars... plywood overseas stuff... being painted pretty and with floyd knock offs people bought a lot of awful guitars...
Click to expand...

This has NOT changed. And one could argue there's some MIA stuff that would fall into this category as well :laugh2:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top