A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

[Pierre]

I did a test yesterday.

I plugged into a TB pedal using two cables each 3 meters long. Which is way too short for stage use I think.
I also did the same but with a buffered pedal in the middle.

The difference even with such short cables (some middle of the range Klotz) was HUGE. The sound was way duller with the TB pedal in the middle by quite a amount. Lost presence and treble as well.

I always do my boards so that I'm buffered at the start and if possible at the end or close. Unless of course there's a wah first. I just feel more secure.

Some people however feel the sound you get with a quality buffer up front is way too bright and snappy and favor a warmer tone through the amp which you can easily get with a certain amount of tone sucking...

Right now I have a Bad Monkey first and a CM Plexitone last. I'm buffered in and out. I'll still compare it to the guitar/cable/amp and see if I'm losing tone tomorrow I think.

So I'm definitely on the buffer school... I don't mind if I have a LITTLE tone suckage, as long as I'm still bright and cutting. But what I had on the test was just too much compared to the buffered sound.

The buffered pedal I used was the Plexitone

 

[Gunny47]

Re: A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

If you mean "buffered" as in NON-true bypass, I've found that those actually WARM UP the sound if anything. The non-tb pedals tend to remove some of the harsh highs which in my case I love. My keeley tube screamer (non-tb) is always in the chain no matter if I wanna use it or not.

 

[Pierre]

Re: A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

They warm it up because SOME buffers do cause tone sucking like cables do

Some buffers are highly efficient and cause very little tone loss, therefore your sound may be brighter than you expect.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

Tonesuck....well cables drain the few millivolts fast...
The sound of the buffer can be changed, change OP-amp in one of our pedals, and the bypass shifts slightly as well....same with discrete transistors used as output buffers.
Or TB....use different cable, but the muffled slightly dead sound is always going to be there!
I have used coax cables for fun....those are very signal loss free....but what a drag to use....stiff!

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

That's a good idea Rid...

I use a 15 foot and an 18 foot cable for my guitar->pedal, pedal->amp link and I notice more of a difference with a poorly buffered pedal in the middle than a TB. I do understand your point once you get a string of TB pedals though. Have you done a test to see if the last buffered pedal is really necessary if the first one is buffered?

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: A little cable experiments I did yesterday.

Tonesuck....well cables drain the few millivolts fast...
The sound of the buffer can be changed, change OP-amp in one of our pedals, and the bypass shifts slightly as well....same with discrete transistors used as output buffers.
Or TB....use different cable, but the muffled slightly dead sound is always going to be there!
I have used coax cables for fun....those are very signal loss free....but what a drag to use....stiff!

Rid, I know you dont like and have a valid tech arguement against modulation pedals in the loop, but wouldn't this issue sorta bring back the idea of puting your chorus/delays in the loop. I've put my Ibanez CS9 chorus re-issue in the loop of my AOR today, and I have to admit I did feel the difference in my neck single coil it was louder, of course invader so crazy that you dont notice the cable effect but my Tex-special in the neck was definately louder. Plust that noise buffer-whatever that orginals CS9 did not have really cleaned up my OD/Pre-amp buzz.