A little direction would be much appreciated!

LazyLightning

New member
Hi folks,

As I mentioned in my introduction thread a few weeks ago, I am coming back into playing after nearly 20 years. Before I was forced to stop for the last 2 decades, I was an arrogant 20'ish y/o ( I am sure I am not the only one in history )
I always had an ear for music and it came very natural for me, for that I feel very fortunate. The problem is I never learned theory, or anything of real value. I would either sit down with a cassette tape and literally figure out each note to a song I wanted to learn and on rare occasions look up tab to a song my buddies wanted me to know. Sure I could play the songs and they sounded decent, but there was a huge problem doing things this way.

Even though I could play this or that song, I couldn't tell you why it worked. If I had gun to my head I would not be able to tell you even in a round about way why certain notes worked together and others didn't! I think you know what I mean. I could play well, but had no idea why. Now that I am older and pretty much doing this just for my own enjoyment, I want to avoid making those same mistakes. I want to learn not only how to play my favorite songs, I want to know how and why they work.

SO.....

Now that I have my beautiful new 60's CV Strat I really want to learn all those things I was clueless too way back when. Since I am teaching myself, I thought it was a good idea to start with learning basic open chords. I have also started working on learning the 5 positions of the A minor pentatonic scale. Do you guys think this is a good place to start, or should I be focusing on something else to get started? Like I said I have been a DeadHead nearly my entire life, so most of my song choices will be theirs. That covers a wide variety though, from bluegrass to both classic and psychedelic rock-n-role and everything in-between. If I had to put it into %'s I would say 85% devoted to learning Dead song/jams, etc.. and the rest to a small grouping of others ( Hendrix, Floyd and believe it or not Metallica**yes a DeadHead who likes classic Metallica** we do exist lol )

I don't see a forum devoted to theory so I apologize ahead of time if this thread is misplaced, I just didn't know where else to ask.

So from the info provided above, am I starting with the right tools? Is there anything some of you much more advanced players can point me to that I have not considered?

Any & all input is greatly appreciated!

TIA

LazyLightning

PS-
I should have added, back before I took the 20year hiatus, I kinda fell into the rhythm spot of the guys I used to jam with on a regular basis. This time around I would really like to work my way towards a more lead based role, again this is with me playing by my lonesome.:biglaugh:
 
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Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Looks like you are headed in the right direction. May I also suggest the CAGED System. It is a great way to get familiar with the fretboard and understand the relationships between the notes, scales and arpeggios. It is really simple. This is one of many websites dedicated to CAGED.

http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

OK,

Thanks for the input very much Securb. I have heard of this system recently, but know nothing about it. I will indeed bookmark the link and see what it's all about.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

There is a mountain of info out there now, especially on YouTube.
My advice is: don't worry aboout posting in threads, just dig in!
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Guitar toolkit if you have an IOS device.

If not, what the heck do they have for Android?
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

The Gear Page has a technique and theory section in that forum. I've gotten some really good info from there. That section tends to not be so full of BS as the rest of TGP.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

There is a mountain of info out there now, especially on YouTube.
My advice is: don't worry aboout posting in threads, just dig in!

You are correct, there is A LOT of info out there. Not all of it is good info though. So I thought it best to run some things I was trying to focus on by the more advanced players to make sure I am not wasting time or jumping to far ahead of myself.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Thanks for the links DankStar, I will check them out. Even if they are a bit more advanced then I am ready for atm, I will still be able to reference back to them when I am ready.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Thanks for the additional input Demanic.

So far the things I am finding I need to focus on is finger placement while moving back and forth between chords. Have been working on down picking and alternate picking while learning the 5 positions of the A minor pentatonic, I am finding alternate comes easier then down picking alone so working on that also. Just a matter or practice at this point.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

On one hand, theory is important but... it's only important for the meedley meedley guys, the jazz dudes or the country pickers. The rockers don't need any of it.

I see you like the Grateful Dead, they didn't need an ounce of theory to write their songs. Their songs broke the rules more often than they conformed to it.

If you want to learn theory, you need to study the Major Scale instead of the pentatonic scale. All music theory is based around the major scale.

In fact, the first step of learning music theory is to learn to play the Major scale in EVERY SINGLE position and key on the fretboard.

You will need to be able write on paper the notes of the major scale from the top of your head (without a guitar around). Once you can do that... theory will fall into place and you'll learn it VERY fast.

I'm personally a rebel, I don't like conformity and being told what choices I should make. Theory sort of does that... it puts you in a neat little box and you won't feel comfortable breaking the rules until you learn a LOT of theory.

That said, my hat is off to you for putting your foot down and deciding to learn theory. Even a little theory makes a guitar player deadly dangerous... it's learning a new language, so eat your vegetables.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Thank you for the support!

I guess I will change gears then and start working on the Major scale. I was under the impression the pentatonic would help me with the beginnings of soloing ( when the time came for it ) I appreciate the input very much, I am not to proud to admit when I am either lost ( or need a nudge in the right direction ) I asked the original question because you folks who have been steadily playing for years, know what is best for someone like me to focus on and let me know if I am headed the wrong way.

It is all very much appreciated!

LazyLightning
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Hey LazyLightning!
No matter what you do, please start slowly and try to be as accurate as possible.
If you still have problems with finger positioning while changing chords try this:
Find yourself a chord progression that sounds nice (like Am C G D)
Find a strumming pattern like down - down up down - down up.
Go to youtube and look for accelerating metronome.
There's one that starts at 80bpm and goes up to 300bpm.
It's about 8minutes long.
Now try to follow the metronome.
It may seem slow at the beginning but bear with it.
Try to play your pattern as accurate as possible.

If you aren't able to follow the metronome anymore just stop, don't overdo things.
Practice takes time. Do it again. You'll get better and faster.
Also, if your hands hurt, take a break!!!

This also works well with scales.

I hope that helps!

Yours,
Eric
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

BurningShrine,
Thanks for the advice, it is well taken. This one simple notion was something I was oblivious too 2 decades ago ( do things slowly and correctly, then build up ) This is why I am so adamant about learning all the things I was too young and arrogant to learn back then. This last comment is no reflection towards younger players or board members, I am simply referring to how arrogant I was at the time

I have been working with the basic open chords: A major/minor, C major, D major, E major/minor & G major. As I mentioned I had been learning the 5 positions of the A minor pentatonic, but suppose I might be better off slowly working on the major scale positions.

My Wife used to play piano and had a nice metronome I have been using while doing scales. As you said though learning to do them slowly and correctly is key, which I am focusing on.
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Thank you for the support!

I guess I will change gears then and start working on the Major scale. I was under the impression the pentatonic would help me with the beginnings of soloing ( when the time came for it ) I appreciate the input very much, I am not to proud to admit when I am either lost ( or need a nudge in the right direction ) I asked the original question because you folks who have been steadily playing for years, know what is best for someone like me to focus on and let me know if I am headed the wrong way.

It is all very much appreciated!

LazyLightning

Do both. Learn the major scale by heart and the 5 "blues boxes". Anthony Stauffer's Blues Box lessons are basically the best around and for $35, it's a hell of a deal.

The major scale will unlock theory but the blues boxes will allow you to express yourself within the vocabulary of "the music of the people" which is the pentatonic minor scale.

I actually took a huge break from playing guitar between 1997-2007. This is my 7th year back. It took me 2-3 full years of practicing before I got my chops back. So I haven't quite been playing steadily for years. However I do know what is best for you and would only give out advice I would have wanted to receive when I was coming up. : )
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Do both. Learn the major scale by heart and the 5 "blues boxes". Anthony Stauffer's Blues Box lessons are basically the best around and for $35, it's a hell of a deal.

The major scale will unlock theory but the blues boxes will allow you to express yourself within the vocabulary of "the music of the people" which is the pentatonic minor scale.

I actually took a huge break from playing guitar between 1997-2007. This is my 7th year back. It took me 2-3 full years of practicing before I got my chops back. So I haven't quite been playing steadily for years. However I do know what is best for you and would only give out advice I would have wanted to receive when I was coming up. : )

I get where you are coming from, trust me all the advice from you folks is being well received and I am very grateful for it!
 
Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

I was an arrogant 20'ish y/o ( I am sure I am not the only one in history )
I never learned theory, or anything of real value.
I am teaching myself
:stooges:


Have a think about getting a teacher. Talk to a few. Make sure they are knowledgeable and qualified enough to teach you what you need to know. Find out what their musical background is. Find out what qualifications they have. Find out if they are working musicians. Get one that can offer you quality, structured learning outcomes.

Music is a language. Your approach when you played 20 years ago is similar to memorizing how to mimic a poem in a foreign language, but never learning what the words actually mean - let alone learning how to speak the language. You need to learn a wide vocabulary and musical grammar. Without this stuff (chops, songs and theory) you will never really understand, or be able to express yourself effectively in the language of music. Learning to read helps immeasurably too: it is musical literacy. Many people can speak a language without being able to read, but if you can read then you can really expand your musical horizons.

Begin with a clear mental slate. Realize that the journey of learning is lifelong, and that in reality your journey is just beginning. Be humble enough to recognize that your own teaching might not be the best way to learn. There are people out there who have spent their whole lives dedicated to music and how to teach it and that they know how to help you avoid pitfalls, dead ends and counterproductive habits. These people can get you where you want to go immeasurably faster than going round in circles repeating the same old patterns.
 
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Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

No offense Gibson 175..to each his/her own. I just happen to have a different view..

When I started out I was told by peers/friends that music theory was super important & "the only way to progress...."

Never been a great one for school books, though I did teach myself some basics...a few scales..chords..note positions on the fretboard etc ....but then when I got to the higher level stuff, I started to realize I was far better off using my ears :)

There's stuff like phrasing, vibrato, bending to pitch etc which no book will ever teach you. It comes from inside ...& frankly makes all the difference. I kind of compare music theory to mathematics..there's very little of it you actually need/end up using in a practical sense in the real world (trignometry, theorems? ...lol ....really?) I also found that as my playing instinct/ear/'musical auto-pilot' lol or whatever you call it developed..reliance on theory actually hindered things a whole lot for me. Everything comes quicker when you don't need to think much about it.

Often things that in theory "should not work" ..actually do work & a good ear will always tell you when that happens..

Just saying this because I think I wasted a lot of wholly unessessary time learning stuff that I had little to no practical use for...when I should have spent that time actually jamming along to stuff & playing with my ears....

I also had an enforced 5+ year break in the middle thanks to CTS...too many scales, twisted chords & crazy finger excercises lol.
 
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Re: A little direction would be much appreciated!

Though I see where you are coming from Gibson175, teaching myself is really what I feel most comfortable with. I have set goals that I intend to reach, as well as plenty of time ( being disabled ) to achieve them. There is a mountain of information at our fingertips and good folks like yourself and others on this board and elsewhere that I can always turn to when I am not sure of the next step to take.

That said, I am not discounting your input. I appreciate it very much, I just wish to do this on my own terms and have as much fun with it as I can. I am sure you can relate!
 
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