A scale
- Thread starter beandip
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HeadBanginologist
Re: A scale
if the kley is in A(not A minor) then the notes are:
A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G#
if the kley is in A(not A minor) then the notes are:
A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G#
italic zero
New member
Re: A scale
it's A B C# D E F# G#
Major Minor Minor Major Major Minor Diminished.
That's about as simple as it gets. Assuming it's major and diatonic.
What he said.
it's A B C# D E F# G#
Major Minor Minor Major Major Minor Diminished.
That's about as simple as it gets. Assuming it's major and diatonic.
What he said.
Last edited:
Bludave
New member
Re: A scale
An excellent way to determine chord possibilities in a given piece of music is to use the circle of 5ths. I have posted a link here that will give some basic understanding of the circle. I also use this to transpose from one key to another. Its a great tool for those of us who have not commited all the note in all the keys to memory.
In the example that you mention the Key of A if you step backwards one step it is D, go forward one step is E If you were to draw a box including the inner circle (relative minors) inside the box that you have drawn will list all the more common chord voices that would normally be used. Iknow this is difficult to see without the circle, so go here, and you can see for yourself. This box that you create around the Key in which you are playing lists all the notes in a particular key except the 7th tone.
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/Theory/23-Circle_of_fifth.asp
An excellent way to determine chord possibilities in a given piece of music is to use the circle of 5ths. I have posted a link here that will give some basic understanding of the circle. I also use this to transpose from one key to another. Its a great tool for those of us who have not commited all the note in all the keys to memory.
In the example that you mention the Key of A if you step backwards one step it is D, go forward one step is E If you were to draw a box including the inner circle (relative minors) inside the box that you have drawn will list all the more common chord voices that would normally be used. Iknow this is difficult to see without the circle, so go here, and you can see for yourself. This box that you create around the Key in which you are playing lists all the notes in a particular key except the 7th tone.
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/Theory/23-Circle_of_fifth.asp
Re: A scale
Ditto ... Buy a music theory book or take some lessons, without a firm musical foundation in the basics a player is lost period. Let alone trying to figure out extensions, substitutions, and altered tones.
But since 7ths are still considered part of the basic structure (not extensions) ...
Major 7th, minor 7th, minor 7th, major 7th, dominant seventh (plain *7th* to some), minor 7th, minor 7th flat 5 (half diminished 7th or diminshed-minor 7th to some).
Yeah circle of 5ths! That's like the first thing you learn after the note names on the staff and the clefs.
The circle of 5ths combined with the order of sharps and flats, determines the major and natural minor scales (relative minor ) for your key signature.
Every player plays by ear when you really think about it, but without an understanding of what's going on ... well, 'nuff said.
italic zero said:
Ditto ... Buy a music theory book or take some lessons, without a firm musical foundation in the basics a player is lost period. Let alone trying to figure out extensions, substitutions, and altered tones.
But since 7ths are still considered part of the basic structure (not extensions) ...
Major 7th, minor 7th, minor 7th, major 7th, dominant seventh (plain *7th* to some), minor 7th, minor 7th flat 5 (half diminished 7th or diminshed-minor 7th to some).
Yeah circle of 5ths! That's like the first thing you learn after the note names on the staff and the clefs.
The circle of 5ths combined with the order of sharps and flats, determines the major and natural minor scales (relative minor ) for your key signature.
Every player plays by ear when you really think about it, but without an understanding of what's going on ... well, 'nuff said.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: A scale
Agreed. There are simple formulae for remembering music theory.
Agreed. There are simple formulae for remembering music theory.
beandip
Frito's Better Half
Re: A scale
Why would I need to buy any theory books? I dont want to learn how to read music, I dont want to learn any theory, because then it takes away from my creativity. I just needed to know what the next chord was in this song, now that I've got it figured all out, although it does do a key change, and I think it goes from the key of A to the key of D, but oh well. Thanks for your help though guys.
Why would I need to buy any theory books? I dont want to learn how to read music, I dont want to learn any theory, because then it takes away from my creativity. I just needed to know what the next chord was in this song, now that I've got it figured all out, although it does do a key change, and I think it goes from the key of A to the key of D, but oh well. Thanks for your help though guys.
crazytooguy
New member
Re: A scale
"Takes away from your creativity"? That's a joke, right? Creativity is the subconscious use of tools, that you have developed consciously, to come up with something unique. That's why we practice - to firm up the tools we need for creativity. My abilities increased ten-fold once I'd studied music theory, composition, and arranging in college. All of a sudden, there were more than three chords in the world! A thorough understanding of how music works will allow you to come up with things you've never imagined before. Sort of like having thousands of different colors to paint with instead of three. Don't knock it til you've tried it...
"Takes away from your creativity"? That's a joke, right? Creativity is the subconscious use of tools, that you have developed consciously, to come up with something unique. That's why we practice - to firm up the tools we need for creativity. My abilities increased ten-fold once I'd studied music theory, composition, and arranging in college. All of a sudden, there were more than three chords in the world! A thorough understanding of how music works will allow you to come up with things you've never imagined before. Sort of like having thousands of different colors to paint with instead of three. Don't knock it til you've tried it...
Re: A scale
See that's the whole point, if he actually understood the science of music he'd see how utterly ignorant and shallow that statement is.
See if he understood music theory he wouldn't have to ask someone else something as simple as what chord type comes next ... let alone changing key ..or maybe it's not a key change at all, maybe just a barrowed chord, or secondary dominant or substitution ... possibily just a modal movement, but alas, he apparently has no use for such information.
Bean you really need to understand how misguided you are here, sight reading as nothing to do with it (however at least I will never be stuck with having to ask someone *can you put it in tab for me*), trying to be a musician without learning theory (the science of music) is like trying to be an artist and saying, well I like red and yellow, and maybe green, I don't know any other colours but I don't want to learn about any, also I just paint the way I paint, why should I learn about brush strokes and how to mix colours, and the use of different materials to paint on (canvas, paper, parchments, ceramic sheets,etc.) Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Don't kid yourself,... it doesn't. I agree totally with the creative expansion that the serious study of music brings, along with the developing of a broader appreciation of other styles and instruments as well. Maybe some people only want to paint with primary colours, fine ... But to truely represent life and things in it, you will NEED many, many more colours, tints, shades, and hues, and the techinques that go along with your medium.
crazytooguy said:
See that's the whole point, if he actually understood the science of music he'd see how utterly ignorant and shallow that statement is.
See if he understood music theory he wouldn't have to ask someone else something as simple as what chord type comes next ... let alone changing key ..or maybe it's not a key change at all, maybe just a barrowed chord, or secondary dominant or substitution ... possibily just a modal movement, but alas, he apparently has no use for such information.
Bean you really need to understand how misguided you are here, sight reading as nothing to do with it (however at least I will never be stuck with having to ask someone *can you put it in tab for me*), trying to be a musician without learning theory (the science of music) is like trying to be an artist and saying, well I like red and yellow, and maybe green, I don't know any other colours but I don't want to learn about any, also I just paint the way I paint, why should I learn about brush strokes and how to mix colours, and the use of different materials to paint on (canvas, paper, parchments, ceramic sheets,etc.) Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Don't kid yourself,... it doesn't. I agree totally with the creative expansion that the serious study of music brings, along with the developing of a broader appreciation of other styles and instruments as well. Maybe some people only want to paint with primary colours, fine ... But to truely represent life and things in it, you will NEED many, many more colours, tints, shades, and hues, and the techinques that go along with your medium.
beandip
Frito's Better Half
Re: A scale
alright, the fact of the matter is, my statement of "it takes away from my creativitiy" is a cover up for the fact that I'm not able to comprehend music theory. I've never been able to, even as a kid when I was taking recorder and piano lessons, I never learned to read music, what note comes next, nothing like that. I've just never been able to understand it, even in the simplest of terms. I was actually kicked out of music theory class my freshman year because no matter how hard I tried, I couldnt pass that class. When you say things like modal movement, secondary dominant or substitution, you'd might as well be speaking Martian. To tell the truth, I'm not actually all that interested in being a great technical guitarist, I dont need to know scales and such to get my point across, atleast I dont think I do. I may be your run of the mill guitarist, but I'm happy being run of the mill. No where in my future do I plan on doing a showcase at MIT or anything. I got the song figured out, and it was a chord change, thanks for the help.
alright, the fact of the matter is, my statement of "it takes away from my creativitiy" is a cover up for the fact that I'm not able to comprehend music theory. I've never been able to, even as a kid when I was taking recorder and piano lessons, I never learned to read music, what note comes next, nothing like that. I've just never been able to understand it, even in the simplest of terms. I was actually kicked out of music theory class my freshman year because no matter how hard I tried, I couldnt pass that class. When you say things like modal movement, secondary dominant or substitution, you'd might as well be speaking Martian. To tell the truth, I'm not actually all that interested in being a great technical guitarist, I dont need to know scales and such to get my point across, atleast I dont think I do. I may be your run of the mill guitarist, but I'm happy being run of the mill. No where in my future do I plan on doing a showcase at MIT or anything. I got the song figured out, and it was a chord change, thanks for the help.
Dime59hum
New member
Re: A scale
Your trying to get through to bean here, and thats not happening. How is all that ranting going to solve anything. You all made good points, but your efforts were in vain. You practically attacked him for saying he didnt want to learn theory and that it hindered his creativity. So what? Let em think that. haha.
Your trying to get through to bean here, and thats not happening. How is all that ranting going to solve anything. You all made good points, but your efforts were in vain. You practically attacked him for saying he didnt want to learn theory and that it hindered his creativity. So what? Let em think that. haha.
beandip
Frito's Better Half
Re: A scale
Thanks Dime. All I wanted to really know was what the next note was, and I'm sorry that what I asked pissed you guys off. I'm not looking to become a better guitarist. I've probably already reached my high point, all I want to do is to get my point across with my music, and that dosnt involve any fretboard roadmaps or music theory for dummies books, it just involves pure emotion. But thanks again for the help.
Thanks Dime. All I wanted to really know was what the next note was, and I'm sorry that what I asked pissed you guys off. I'm not looking to become a better guitarist. I've probably already reached my high point, all I want to do is to get my point across with my music, and that dosnt involve any fretboard roadmaps or music theory for dummies books, it just involves pure emotion. But thanks again for the help.
Re: A scale
Actually , my intent was not to attack him at all (just so you and bean know), sometimes the most direct and matter of fact approach is necessary to get a point across in plain terms and minimize the risk of misinterpretation.
I was not attacking bean nor ranting ... Sorry if it came across that way.
If bean enjoys what he does , and wants to do it that way, well that's cool ... I would much rather he enjoy what he does, then to feel he HAS to do things one way or the other, and then not enjoy what he's doing. That's not cool or productive either way.
I still thought my colour analogy was cool ... :laugh2:
It's just that when someone asks a question I really want to give them a truthful answer ... to me it's the old *give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime* In this case there are many fishing instructors and instruction books out there if one wishes to learn. What I said is the truth bean, unless you want me to lie to you ... Not going to do that. Whatever you want to do is cool, and I tried to help here, but if you felt like you were attacked that wasn't the intent at all, nor was it a rant. However, I will not sugarcoat my answer either, best to you bean, and dime! Keep doing what you like and love!
:cool3:
Dime59hum said:
Actually , my intent was not to attack him at all (just so you and bean know), sometimes the most direct and matter of fact approach is necessary to get a point across in plain terms and minimize the risk of misinterpretation.
I was not attacking bean nor ranting ... Sorry if it came across that way.
If bean enjoys what he does , and wants to do it that way, well that's cool ... I would much rather he enjoy what he does, then to feel he HAS to do things one way or the other, and then not enjoy what he's doing. That's not cool or productive either way.
I still thought my colour analogy was cool ... :laugh2:
It's just that when someone asks a question I really want to give them a truthful answer ... to me it's the old *give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime* In this case there are many fishing instructors and instruction books out there if one wishes to learn. What I said is the truth bean, unless you want me to lie to you ... Not going to do that. Whatever you want to do is cool, and I tried to help here, but if you felt like you were attacked that wasn't the intent at all, nor was it a rant. However, I will not sugarcoat my answer either, best to you bean, and dime! Keep doing what you like and love!
:cool3:
Re: A scale
Bean I would say if you were having such a hard time grasping theory then your teachers did you a dis-service. No one has explained it to you the right way. Chords, scales, and how they relate are really easy, lots of stuff on the net to explain it too. But hey, music is art, and its your perogitive. If you don't want to learn all that stuff then so be it. Personally I'm not theory wiz, but I do know my scales, modes, and how they connect across the neck, and I can say that it has definately made me a better guitar player.
Bean I would say if you were having such a hard time grasping theory then your teachers did you a dis-service. No one has explained it to you the right way. Chords, scales, and how they relate are really easy, lots of stuff on the net to explain it too. But hey, music is art, and its your perogitive. If you don't want to learn all that stuff then so be it. Personally I'm not theory wiz, but I do know my scales, modes, and how they connect across the neck, and I can say that it has definately made me a better guitar player.
Re: A scale
I can't play by ear, but I wish I could. There are many people who are geniuses at the art of music who don't understand the theory of music. Beandip asked a simple question of what notes are in the A scale. This to me was not a invitation to browbeat him on him on whether he should study music theory. There are basic tricks that he could be pointed to such as the circle of 5th and harmonizing a scale that anyone wanting to figure a song by ear should know. However, it should have been left at that. A lot times when we lecture others, it may be merely a reflection our own inadequacy. My own $.02.
I can't play by ear, but I wish I could. There are many people who are geniuses at the art of music who don't understand the theory of music. Beandip asked a simple question of what notes are in the A scale. This to me was not a invitation to browbeat him on him on whether he should study music theory. There are basic tricks that he could be pointed to such as the circle of 5th and harmonizing a scale that anyone wanting to figure a song by ear should know. However, it should have been left at that. A lot times when we lecture others, it may be merely a reflection our own inadequacy. My own $.02.
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HeadBanginologist
Re: A scale
well the notes are the oens i posted above.
unless you want to know more, then this all you want to know as of right now.
well the notes are the oens i posted above.
unless you want to know more, then this all you want to know as of right now.
Re: A scale
I don't think anyone was 'browbeating' him on a simple question, I think the issue is that 'learning something is bad'. If someone has just told you they don't want to learn, and explains that learning 'hurts creativity', it is difficult to understand that point of view if you have taken the time to learn. It is also bad for people who are learning to read statements like that- it breeds insecurity as well as immature and illiterate musicians (which are a real pain to work with, btw). I think if beandip just asked for the notes without the diatribe, all would be well.
jcarlos said:
I don't think anyone was 'browbeating' him on a simple question, I think the issue is that 'learning something is bad'. If someone has just told you they don't want to learn, and explains that learning 'hurts creativity', it is difficult to understand that point of view if you have taken the time to learn. It is also bad for people who are learning to read statements like that- it breeds insecurity as well as immature and illiterate musicians (which are a real pain to work with, btw). I think if beandip just asked for the notes without the diatribe, all would be well.
