A2Ps Vs PGs in a Gibson LP

[Brow]

Hey guys.

I'm starting thinking about replacing the pups in my Gibson LP Standard. I'm using the LP at its 1st band practise tomorrow, so I'll have more of an idea about what I like and dislike about the pickups.

The main 2 pups I thought about were an A2P set or a PG set.

Tattooed Carrot has a fine looking set of Double Cream PG's for Sale, and I'm sure Blackrose could hook me up with some A2P's if I asked him nicely But I'm just not sure about which to get.

I play mainly 60's and 70's style classic rock and blues. Any opinions, and pros/cons of these pickups would be a big help.

Thanx for any opinions.

Craig

 

[Jeff_H]

Hey Brow....the only on of those pups I haven't tried is the PG bridge. I have the APH set in my Hardtail currently, and I just took out the PG. I also had the PG in my double fat strat before replacing it with an APH.

My assessment is that the PG is wound to enhance certain mid frequencies (to my ears mainly the upper mids but subtly lower mids as well). To me that's what gives it that "sizzle" that SD advertises. It's not a bad sound at all, just different. The bass response is also not quite as full as the APH to me. The neck especially has a really nice clean sound, and works well split. As mentioned, I haven't tried the bridge. In the neck of my strat it sounded really nice for all forms of rock and blues, no matter how overdriven. In the neck of my hardtail it was too dark and not articulate enough, especially overdriven..... although the clean was always slightly dard as well. It just didn't match for my taste.

The APH's have the mids just slightly pulled back and to my ears have slightly enhanced lows. Very "evenly balanced" as the site says. Simply the sweetest humbuckers I have ever heard, followed very closely by the Seth. I knew I would love the neck pickup since I had one in the strat. The neck is super sweet and buttery smooth clean, really nice for rythym work and distorted lead work. Classic Slash lead tone. My biggest suprise was the bridge. I took a chance ordering it and absolutely love it. It also has a great clean voice, and will handle as much OD as you throw at it. The bridge will do anything IMO except full metal onslaught (and it may do that, I just don't have the equipment). Both positions retain great clarity without being overly bright.

I picked the APH over the PG due to the extra sweetness and smooth clarity. It's a great base from which to build almost any rock sound. If you have found that an A5 magnet is slightly to bright and focused for you, then the APH is the ticket. From my point of view I would like to have to add treble as necessary to enhance the sound, not fight it constantly. If something is naturally too bright to me, turning down the treble seems to muffle the sound a bit, decreasing the clarity. With the APH, the clarity is there....and you can always get more treble if you really want it.

If you wanted some sort of rough sound sample let me know....I don't have any plans tonight or tomorrow. I could throw something together really quickly.

Just my $.02.

 

[jeremy]

jeffs been around here a while and i respect his opinion, but i like the pgs much better

i use my blues jr most of the time and i run all the eq full up. the pgs cut thru a band so well while when i tried the aph it was much less punchy. the aph has more bottom end and is much smoother sounding than the pgs though.
im sure with some gear the aph works better, but not my gear. think mid 90s era warren haynes if your hip to him.
the bridge has a smooth but strong top end with good bite, great punchy mids that have a growl to them and a bottom end thats big enough to give a full sound but not so big as to be tubby or muddy. i think it pushes the amp mich nicer than the aph
the pgn has a warm top end with plenty of upper mids that give it great clarity and punch for such a warm pup.

 

[korovamilkdud]

I tried the alnico 2 pro bridge, and while it sounded very warm played clean, I couldn't get into it's distorted sound, I found it bassy for my taste. I'd vote for PGs as well.

Of course, it's all different strokes for different folks.

 

[Brow]

Thanx for the replies guys

Jeff_H, is there any chance you would be able to do a quick clip of the APH bridge? I have the MP3's you posted of the APH neck ,and I absolutely love the tone you get! But I've never heard a APH bridge, so any help would be appreciated

I have a PGn in my Epiphone LP at the minute and I love it's tone too, but sometimes I find it's bass to be a bit 'boomy'. Altho that could be its height maybe?

1 neck pickup tone that I would love to be able to get close to would be 'Still Got The Blues' by Gary Moore. For this I assume a APH would be better because it is smoother?

Thanx for the opinions guys. Anyone else have anything to add?

Craig

 

[Jeff_H]

Brow -

I posted a few short clips of the APH bridge in my hardtail. Here's the link.

APH II Bridge Demo

 

[spidey]

Hey Brow - I was in the same dilemma. Got a Les-Paul and didn't like the burst bucker pros in there. It was a toss-up between the APHs and the PGs and I opted for the PGs (with nickle covers) as I love Warren Haynes mid 90s tones. They were delivered this morning! I've now got to get my tech to fit them, so I'll post my review as soon as I've heard them. Can't wait!

 

[captain cavman]

I would advise the PGs too .

The A2Ps are great PUs but I prefer the PGs in a LP, brighter and more harmonics.

I prefer the A2Ps in a lighter weight/brighter guitar, I have them in a CU22

 

[jeremy]

if you find the pgn to be boomy some times, then i wouldnt try the aph, it has a bigger bottom end

 

[Brow]

Hey again guys.

Thanx for all the posts.

Spidey, I'm interested to hear what you think to the PG's in your LP. Would you PM me with your opinions please?

I've listened to the clips Jeff_H posted using his A2P bridge pup and I love the tone he gets.

I'm still mulling this over in my head, so any other opinions are appreciated.

Thanx again.

Craig

 

[spidey]

Hi Craig - no problem, as soon as they are in and I've had chance to try them I'll post my thoughts.

 

[dr.barlo]

I think quite highly of Jeff, but my tastes on this issue is different than his. I would go for PG's. If a round tone is important to you, you can always wash off some of the edge with the tone control. Decrease the tone on your guitar to 7-8 (with linear pots), and increase the highs on your amp! Good old trick. It would not do exactly what A2P's do, yet close.

By the way you might wanna check the antiquities/seths as well. They are in the same territory, but have more dimensionality due to being non-wax potted.

Good Luck.

 

[dr.barlo]

I gotta add, I think PGs are the best wax-potted PAF replicase ever made. My humble opinion that's all.

B

 

[Brow]

Thanx for the replies guys.

Dr Barlo, I did originally think about getting a set of Seths for my LP, but after speaking to SimonF about it and hearing his comments about the lack of bass in the bridge pup I kinda ruled them out.

Although, I s'ppose its another option for me to look into

Craig

 

[Simon_F]

Thanx for the replies guys.

Dr Barlo, I did originally think about getting a set of Seths for my LP, but after speaking to SimonF about it and hearing his comments about the lack of bass in the bridge pup I kinda ruled them out.

Although, I s'ppose its another option for me to look into

Craig

Actually Craig, I'm back on the Seths big time now. utahere:

It's not so much that the Seth bridge model lacks bass, but the bass is softer and less defined than on some other pickups I've played. I put a C5 in the bridge position for a while, had much stronger bass, but I missed the sweetness and character of the Seth, so I put the Seth back and spent more time tweaking my amp's EQ. The Seth neck model is a no brainer for me - best neck HB I've ever played. The bridge model has taken me longer to dial in, possibly because I'd never played an A2 bridge pickup before. Also bear in mind that I play mostly through a Jubilee, which is quite a bright amp with some quirky tone controls. With the mids and bass boosted, the treble and presence low, G12-H30 and V30 speakers and the Seths in the LP it's sounding awesome now. And here's an interesting thing - I find I get better sustain and controlled feedback from the Seth than I do the higher output C5. Must be something to do with resonant frequencies and possibly the lack of potting.

My band went along to a jam night on Monday and got up to play a few songs. I had to plug my LP into a solid state Crate combo - I was dreading it. We played a mix of stuff including Moondance (mellow ) through to Waiting For An Alibi (rockin' :headbang: ) and I got the full range of necessary tones on an amp I wasn't familiar with. Brought the house down!

The Seths are great pickups, full of character, bright but warm, and very versatile - just ask Steve_R!

Perhaps I should dump the Jubilee and get a little solid state Crate combo. :scratchch

 

[dr.barlo]

Brow,

I am a BIG fan of the spongy (non-defined, not in your face) bass of seths and ants. Even with an a5 magnet the ants don't get that in your face bass as for example in 59, PG+( both to a much lesser degree than the C5) or c5. I guess that has to do with unbalanced coils, I dunno. (I dunno about seths with a5's) Anyway, of course it is you who is gonna use that set, but that particular aspect (spongy bass that many (including me) believe it to be one of the key defining features of the PAF tone) is a much sought point among tone seekers.

B

 

[Jeff_H]

It's all about personal preference Brow. I love the APH, they work great in my Hardtail and for my tone....that's all. Each guitar has a different voice, and each player a different opinion of tone. The PG isn't one of the most popular pup sets for a LP for no reason.

Jeremy, Doc and everyone else are right on the money with their assessments. If my guitar had a different natural voice, the APH might not be the right choice. As much as I love the APH in the neck, there are some qualities I really miss about the Seth I had in there just prior. It was a little more airy and articulate....but with similar warmth. There is no guarantee that it won't go back to replace the APH in the future. I've not had the opportunity to play a Seth bridge, but I took the same chance with the APH since I loved the neck. I would bet the same would hold true for the Seth Bridge.

Also, don't limit yourself to a matched set. Nothing wrong with an APH bridge and a PG neck, vice versa, throw a Seth in the mix for either position as well. Also, with the 21 day exchange through John or Lew you can't lose. I sincerely hope you find what is exactly right for you.

 

[Brow]

Hey again guys.

Thanx for all the replies.

After thinking about what sort of tone I want from a LP, I think maybe a set of Seth's may be for me after all. Alot of my favourite 60's and 70's Rock/Blues players used LP's with PAFs in, so I guess a PAF style set is what I need

The reason I ask so many questions before I buy pickups is that because I live in England, and get all my pickups from Blackrose (as of yet), I don't think the 21 day exchange policy will apply. Even if it does, it'll cost me a hell of alot in shipping

Another reason I think the Seth's may be for me is because myself and SimonF have very similar LP's, similar amps and play the same kind of music. So it figures that those pups will work for me too. I know it's not neccasarily right to think that, but it works for me

Thanx again guys.

Craig

 

[papersoul]

Actually Craig, I'm back on the Seths big time now. utahere:

It's not so much that the Seth bridge model lacks bass, but the bass is softer and less defined than on some other pickups I've played. I put a C5 in the bridge position for a while, had much stronger bass, but I missed the sweetness and character of the Seth, so I put the Seth back and spent more time tweaking my amp's EQ. The Seth neck model is a no brainer for me - best neck HB I've ever played. The bridge model has taken me longer to dial in, possibly because I'd never played an A2 bridge pickup before. Also bear in mind that I play mostly through a Jubilee, which is quite a bright amp with some quirky tone controls. With the mids and bass boosted, the treble and presence low, G12-H30 and V30 speakers and the Seths in the LP it's sounding awesome now. And here's an interesting thing - I find I get better sustain and controlled feedback from the Seth than I do the higher output C5. Must be something to do with resonant frequencies and possibly the lack of potting.

My band went along to a jam night on Monday and got up to play a few songs. I had to plug my LP into a solid state Crate combo - I was dreading it. We played a mix of stuff including Moondance (mellow ) through to Waiting For An Alibi (rockin' :headbang: ) and I got the full range of necessary tones on an amp I wasn't familiar with. Brought the house down!

The Seths are great pickups, full of character, bright but warm, and very versatile - just ask Steve_R!

Perhaps I should dump the Jubilee and get a little solid state Crate combo. :scratchch

That's the thing....I wish I could find that deep bass of the C-5, including it's great clean tone with added sweet mids. Mabye the Fillmore bridge is the ticket.

 

[Brow]

merciful bump