A3 PAF

[gimmieinfo]

I have a set of recent probuckers in a epi that i put A3 in and they sound great. Dynamics are better then A2 or A5 that i also tried and they sound more complex then 2 or 5. Today i goodled A3 PAF and this is the first thing that came up. Sound opposite of what i hear. Just curious what others think about this.....


A3 is a rare magnet type found in vintage PAF pickups. It's considered the weakest and has a low output, reduced picking dynamics, and less harmonic content than other Alnico grades. Some say Gibson may have recognized the limitations of A3 in PAF pickups and that's why it's so rare. Here are some things to know about A3 magnets in PAF pickups: Clarity: A3 magnets have nice clarity, but are very weak and have a low output for PAF pickups.The original PAF design called for Alnico 5 magnets, but early examples can be Alnico 2, Alnico 3, or Alnico 5

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The whole dynamics thing is way overblown. Some people say, "more dynamic this, more dynamic that", without really any backing. People also tend to go by the thought "less output = more dynamic", when it's not always the case. I'm not claiming that's what's being said here, but I do feel many people online just throw out random descriptions of how stuff sounds.

My personal opinion is if you like A3, and you feel it works better with your playing style, just go with it. If you feel it reacts better to your playing, who can argue with that?

My own personal opinion regarding how "dynamic" magnets are is A5 is bolder and feels more immediate than A2. I don't have much experience with A3, though. But I do feel A2 feels more squishy than A5. But the fact that something is A2 doesn't immediately make it more compressed than something with A5. The wind also has a play in that.

 

[Chistopher]

A3 is just a quieter A2 with less bass for my applications

 

[gimmieinfo]

Yeah, i should back track on the dynamics thing because i think it's more the lower output of A3 that allows me to get cleaner with the volume but not so much dynamics. I can just dial in a more dynamic tone than A5 because with the extra output of A5 i don't like the tone when i lower amp gain to match where it is with A3. So thats more a rig thing. But what i DO notice is A3 has a lot more harmonic complexity, better EQ balance and just the right amount of squish in the attack. A5 sounds more sterile or more FUNDEMENTAL and the balance has me messing with amp EQ too much trying to get it right. A3 is just there no matter where i set it. OF course it IS definitely a case by case basis depending on ears, rig and guitar. Funny thing is, i have rarely liked anything that is not A5 in most other guitars. LP standards with a maple cap sound unique and i think thats why the A5s sound like they do to me in it. I like A2 also but A3 sounds slightly richer and i like the lower output.

 

[Seashore]

Yeah, i should back track on the dynamics thing because i think it's more the lower output of A3 that allows me to get cleaner with the volume but not so much dynamics. I can just dial in a more dynamic tone than A5 because with the extra output of A5 i don't like the tone when i lower amp gain to match where it is with A3. So thats more a rig thing. But what i DO notice is A3 has a lot more harmonic complexity, better EQ balance and just the right amount of squish in the attack. A5 sounds more sterile or more FUNDEMENTAL and the balance has me messing with amp EQ too much trying to get it right. A3 is just there no matter where i set it. OF course it IS definitely a case by case basis depending on ears, rig and guitar. Funny thing is, i have rarely liked anything that is not A5 in most other guitars. LP standards with a maple cap sound unique and i think thats why the A5s sound like they do to me in it. I like A2 also but A3 sounds slightly richer and i like the lower output.

I think I like different sounds from you, but I totally hear what you're saying about some pickups (magnets, etc) not quite being right no matter how much you fiddle with them, whereas others just do what you need them to do. I love when I can stop adjusting stuff and focus on playing music.

 

[gimmieinfo]

I love when I can stop adjusting stuff and focus on playing music.

Ain't that the truth ! When i hit on something that makes that happen i try and not listen to anything the GAS devil on my shoulder tells me and just leave it alone. This is why i use the amp i do which is a cheap modeling combo. It simply works and i just play. I was a tube snob for 40 years but the one thing that made me stick to modeling and give up on tubes was the fact that i found myself just playing, and every gig sounded consistently the same. The gear hound in me kept telling me to look elsewhere because a cheap modeler can't be as good, but i realized i was happy with my tone and never thought about the amp while playing, where with even boutique tube amps i was always thinking about what knob i could turn to make things right in the middle of songs ! That disrupts your playing and if u sing it's even more detrimental. I think if we just used that as the determining factor as to what gear is THE one, we'd probably buy and sell a whole lot less gear.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I like A3 in general. It feels and sounds vintagey, with lighter lows and perhaps a bit more sparkle up top than A2.
Yes, it's a bit weaker than A2. But both have generous mids that help them punch above their weight outputwise.
IMO those extra mids often give them extra personality too compared to A5.

I like A3 hums a lot in neck position, while I tend to prefer something a little fatter at the bridge.
That's mostly because I like consistency of output across various guitars so I don't need to redial my rig for each.
If I were using one guitar all the time, I could totally make an A3 work at the bridge.
It just seems to make any humbucker sound more vintage-PAF-ish.

I have three neck A3s right now: one from Wizz, one custom-wound from Rewind, and a mag-swapped Duncan 59N.​

 

[gimmieinfo]

I have three neck A3s right now: one from Wizz, one custom-wound from Rewind, and a mag-swapped Duncan 59N.​

I wonder how a bridge 59 with A3 would sound. I hear a lot of people citing the 59 as bright and thin which is what i experienced with A5 in my current pups as compared to A2/3. So it seems like a 59 bridge with A3 would be a good match.
On a side note, one thing thats very surprising to me is that as good as i find A3 to be in these PAF pups, it's baffling how few A3 HB's you see out there. If i were very different than most people in what i want then i could see it. But i'm not. I'm a very traditional player that uses my volume control for clean to drive and play a wide variety of classic rock/pop. And when i see players of the same type as me they tend to go for the same sound that i do.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I wonder how a bridge 59 with A3 would sound. I hear a lot of people citing the 59 as bright and thin which is what i experienced with A5 in my current pups as compared to A2/3. So it seems like a 59 bridge with A3 would be a good match.
On a side note, one thing thats very surprising to me is that as good as i find A3 to be in these PAF pups, it's baffling how few A3 HB's you see out there. If i were very different than most people in what i want then i could see it. But i'm not. I'm a very traditional player that uses my volume control for clean to drive and play a wide variety of classic rock/pop. And when i see players of the same type as me they tend to go for the same sound that i do.

I bet an A3-loaded 59B would sound great. SH-1 is a classic wind that does consistently well in just about any guitar, but I've always felt its personality isn't as PAF-ish as the name might imply. I expect an A3 magnet would bring the 59B a big step closer to classic vintagey tone & feel, as it did for my 59N.

As for the rarity of A3 humbuckers, I think many players - despite their respect for vintage tones - are used to the sharp attack and relatively big tight bass of the A5 pickups they've used ever since they began playing. Also, most modern guitarists aren't used to lower output pickups. And the big makers build with sales in mind. It is a business, after all. Boutique builders are another story though.
A few vintage oriented A3 models have come out in the mainstream of course, including singlecoils as well as a few humbuckers.
A3 is far better known these days than it used to be; for a long time it was more or less a secret ingredient.
But I absolutely agree that it's still very underappreciated.

 

[jeremy]

i like a3 paf type neck pups, i almost always prefer a2 paf types in the bridge though. i do really like a custom with a3 in the bridge, a more balanced custom custom with a touch less output

 

[pittbull]

Alnico 3 in the neck position is fantastic

 

[marcello252]

I have a tele with APH-1 bridge and neck, but in the bridge I put an A3 since the experiment with a tonerider set was good.... Well, I think THIS set now is the real 'tele on steroids', the A3 HB is very close in mood with a traditional tele pickup (I'm talking about mood, not tone, it's still a humbucker), there is a similiar push on the high side, and the A2 on neck is like a tele neck with tone closed but with greater output and harmonic content, I'm very happy.

but a A3 HB bridge is a strange beast, I think it doesn't work this good everywhere, it could be a little weak for some rig, experience must be your guide light

 

[gimmieinfo]

I have a tele with APH-1 bridge and neck, but in the bridge I put an A3 since the experiment with a tonerider set was good.... Well, I think THIS set now is the real 'tele on steroids', the A3 HB is very close in mood with a traditional tele pickup (I'm talking about mood, not tone, it's still a humbucker), there is a similiar push on the high side, and the A2 on neck is like a tele neck with tone closed but with greater output and harmonic content, I'm very happy.

but a A3 HB bridge is a strange beast, I think it doesn't work this good everywhere, it could be a little weak for some rig, experience must be your guide light

Actually, after i posted this the replies got me thinking and i threw the A2 back in the bridge. This time i felt it was preferable. So i may go back to y initial idea of a pearly gates in the bridge but leave the a3 in the neck. But can anyone tell me is the pearly gates have unbalanced coils? If so i'm thinking of maybe unwrapping one coil on my bridge p/u to copy the design closer. They are about the same wind and if the PG but the coils i believe are balanced.

 

[jeremy]

the pg has balanced coils, just a narrow q for the resonant peak in the upper mids

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah. All production Duncans have balanced coils except for the 'Hybrid.

 

[freefrog]

But can anyone tell me is the pearly gates have unbalanced coils?

In fact, My data mention 3.99k and 4.14k for the coils of a stock PG1B measured a few decades ago...