About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

alnico_II

New member
This isn't a sarcastic question meant to flame, I really am in the shadows in this topic

I saw a topic were someone was asking about a cheap Solid State to practice with because his DSL401 didn't sound good at low volumes

I have a question, keep in mind that I have never played through a tube amp

I have a Marshall MG15, and well the overdrive channel sounds terrible, I try to always play on my guitarport if i am using Distortion.

Is it true that the DSL401, a $1000 tube amp, at low volume sounds worse/comparable than/to my $100 Solid State?

OR

is the DSL401 simply too loud to practice with in a home setting, and I am taking the saying "sounds bad at low volume" far to literally, as I suspect?
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Tube amps sound "best" when they are overdriven (a little or a lot, depending on what you like). To overdrive them, you need to increase the gain, which increases the output volume. So, yes, tube amps will not sound their best when playing at very low volume. Solid state amps, theoretically, will have the same sonic qualities at low or high volumes.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Tube's (or as the Brit's call them) are Valve's. To get a desirable O.D./ Dist. those valve's have to be open. You need a certain amount of current to flow thru the tube B4 it will Distort. In most case's this means the amp has to be LOUD !!. So it's not so much tube amps sound bad at low volume's, But more the louder you play it, Generally the better it will sound. :D
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

The DSL sounds so much better than the MG pos that it's almost unbelievable. Low volume or not, the DSL completely owns that thing that you have, my friend had the digital effects one and he was like "the distortion is broken" then realized it just sounded like ass.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

The DSL's sound like **** and still sound better than MG's.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

To all posters - Thank you for putting up with my stupid question

to last two posters - Exactly the answer I was looking for, thanks
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
The DSL's sound like **** and still sound better than MG's.
Sorry but no, you just have to know how to tweak them. I run my treble on zero on the OD for a good reason - and it's still plenty trebly.

Anyway I'm the guy that wanted a small cheap amp - several reasons for this. Yes, my DSL doesn't sound the best at low volumes - I just can't bring myself to play it low.

I like to keep it in my basement so when I'm in my room I play unplugged. So therefore a practise amp would be nice. Also I need something with a headphone jack, so I can do the 3am jam thing.
 
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Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

I think the DSLs are fine sounding amps. They aren't quite as cool as the pre 1990 Marshalls (pure opinion) but they are channel switchers with more gain and thats what many people wanted so Marshall seems to be on point with the DSLs.

All amps need to be turned up a fair amount to sound their best. No circiut sounds great when it's choked and no speaker sounds good until it's getting hit with a solid signal. Sound is no more than vibrating air and you need to move some air to get tone.

Tube amps are definately different than SS amps. Much of the distorted tone in a tube amp is developed by saturating the tubes and this can only be done by turning the amps volume and or gain up. With even a 30 watt tube amp this will be a significant level. Even a 18 watt tube amp will be able to rattle the pictures on your bedroom wall if you crank it up but it's a killer sound. To a point, the louder you play a tube amp the better it will sound.

SS amps don't need a lot of current flowing to sound their best. The distortion is usually created by opamps which is a 5 volt chip instead of a 400 volt, high current tube. By using chips to create the square wave you can create small but distorted signals, giving you distortion at far lower levels. You still need to get to a given level to get the speaker moving but it's usually lower than a tube amp because you aren't pushing the tubes to saturate.

The problem with small SS amps is though that they often don't sound all that great. Sure you get more distortion at a lower level but the quality of the tone isn't all that, it's just more distorted and typically grainier than you'll get with a tube amp. Also, since SS amps don't need to have big trannys to handle the current that tubes need to operate or to couple the speaker(s) to the amp they can be put into smaller packages. The smaller the box, the more boxy your tone will sound. The enclosure has a lot to do with tone.

The biggest thing to consider is that you can play a DSL quietly and it will sound much like a small SS amp with thin and somewhat buzzy tone but if you turn up a small SS amp it will never sound like a DSL cranked, it will just get louder.

If your main considerations are level and price you may get great service from a small SS amp in your bedroom and unless your girlfriend is a guitar player, no one will know or want to burst into giggles when they see your Bandit next to your night stand.

From a tonal point of view there are better options for bedrooms than a under $200 SS practice amp and most of those are really built and marketed for those that are just starting out and can't see spending $2000 on a new Marshall half stack. For that purpose small SS amps are a blessing. A better option for bedrooms is a used Pod 2.0. Good effects, reverb, gate, tuner and tone that is more along the lines of what you will hear in the real world. Run it into a small home stereo and you have very quiet practice "amp" that has a headphone jack and can be used further down the line for recording.

I have a 180 watt Mesa rack, a 100 watt JCM 800, a 30 watt Crate V32, a Crate GT80 and a Pod 2.0 here at the house and I can get tones very simular to all of them with a Pod (maybe not the GT80 - yuck) and at levels that don't bother people or distroy my ears.

You can have sound or you can have tone and you can have both at reasonable levels with modeling gear. The Pod will never replace my tube amps but in a pinch it can get in the ballpark. A small SS combo doesn't even come close.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
The DSL's sound like **** and still sound better than MG's.
Not really... the DSLs are fine amps in my book, although I like my TSL more. You have to really spend some time on them to find their real qualities, but then chances are you really like 'em. Honestly... how long have you played a DSL or TSL? Have you ven played them once?
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Robert S. said:
I think the DSLs are fine sounding amps. They aren't quite as cool as the pre 1990 Marshalls (pure opinion) but they are channel switchers with more gain and thats what many people wanted so Marshall seems to be on point with the DSLs.

All amps need to be turned up a fair amount to sound their best. No circiut sounds great when it's choked and no speaker sounds good until it's getting hit with a solid signal. Sound is no more than vibrating air and you need to move some air to get tone.

Tube amps are definately different than SS amps. Much of the distorted tone in a tube amp is developed by saturating the tubes and this can only be done by turning the amps volume and or gain up. With even a 30 watt tube amp this will be a significant level. Even a 18 watt tube amp will be able to rattle the pictures on your bedroom wall if you crank it up but it's a killer sound. To a point, the louder you play a tube amp the better it will sound.

SS amps don't need a lot of current flowing to sound their best. The distortion is usually created by opamps which is a 5 volt chip instead of a 400 volt, high current tube. By using chips to create the square wave you can create small but distorted signals, giving you distortion at far lower levels. You still need to get to a given level to get the speaker moving but it's usually lower than a tube amp because you aren't pushing the tubes to saturate.

The problem with small SS amps is though that they often don't sound all that great. Sure you get more distortion at a lower level but the quality of the tone isn't all that, it's just more distorted and typically grainier than you'll get with a tube amp. Also, since SS amps don't need to have big trannys to handle the current that tubes need to operate or to couple the speaker(s) to the amp they can be put into smaller packages. The smaller the box, the more boxy your tone will sound. The enclosure has a lot to do with tone.

The biggest thing to consider is that you can play a DSL quietly and it will sound much like a small SS amp with thin and somewhat buzzy tone but if you turn up a small SS amp it will never sound like a DSL cranked, it will just get louder.

If your main considerations are level and price you may get great service from a small SS amp in your bedroom and unless your girlfriend is a guitar player, no one will know or want to burst into giggles when they see your Bandit next to your night stand.

From a tonal point of view there are better options for bedrooms than a under $200 SS practice amp and most of those are really built and marketed for those that are just starting out and can't see spending $2000 on a new Marshall half stack. For that purpose small SS amps are a blessing. A better option for bedrooms is a used Pod 2.0. Good effects, reverb, gate, tuner and tone that is more along the lines of what you will hear in the real world. Run it into a small home stereo and you have very quiet practice "amp" that has a headphone jack and can be used further down the line for recording.

I have a 180 watt Mesa rack, a 100 watt JCM 800, a 30 watt Crate V32, a Crate GT80 and a Pod 2.0 here at the house and I can get tones very simular to all of them with a Pod (maybe not the GT80 - yuck) and at levels that don't bother people or distroy my ears.

You can have sound or you can have tone and you can have both at reasonable levels with modeling gear. The Pod will never replace my tube amps but in a pinch it can get in the ballpark. A small SS combo doesn't even come close.

I don't know Rob,I'm a tube amp purest guy myself,but I get great tones out of my Vox Valvetronix VTH 120 Head....It's just got 2 12aX7s but I Love this thing! The technology is alot better every year now!
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Yes you do know StratDeluxer. The Vox is a modeling amp and it will get far better tone at any level compared to a small SS combo.

The original premise was cheap SS combo.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Robert S. said:
Yes you do know StratDeluxer. The Vox is a modeling amp and it will get far better tone at any level compared to a small SS combo.

The original premise was cheap SS combo.

Roger that Rob! The VTH was pretty cheap in my opinion though! $599 new..:) It's amazing some of the tones I've been able to get from this amp into the right cabinet,and I've gigged alot with it..
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

In the land of Squire Strats and Crate XT15 combos, $599 is a lot of loot.

BTW, I still have a trashed Vox 847 that needs some serious love.......
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Robert S. said:
In the land of Squire Strats and Crate XT15 combos, $599 is a lot of loot.

Yes I guess it is Rob....I'm lucky cause that isn't alot of cash these days in my mind for a cool amp! For the 15 to 20 y/o guys it might be though?
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

$599 is a killer price for that amps flexability. I picked up a Crate V32 for $430 and I thought that was a great deal on a new tube combo.

But for the youngins around here that is still a lot of money. For bedroom use or on a budget a Pod (or other modeler) is a far better deal than a small SS combo for the same price.
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

Robert S. said:
No it surely is not. I picked up a Crate V32 for $430 and I thought that was a great deal on a new tube combo.

But for the youngins around here that is still a lot of money. For bedroom use or on a budget a Pod (or other modeler) is a far better deal than a small SS combo for the same price.

Agreed Rob...:smokin:
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

at LOW volumes, my LC15 sounded great!




i got a dif question.

why buy an amp that you have to spend hours with to find a good tone? shouldnt it just sound awesome from the go?
 
Re: About cheap SS amps vs. Tubes

To each his own guys, the DSL really doesn't handle extremely high gain stuff very well.
 
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