Absolutely done with Alnico 8

[Lewguitar]

I was done with ceramic humbuckers a decade ago!

I still have a Fralin Steel Pole 43 with a ceramic magnet as the bridge pickup in one of my Strats.

Sounds a little like a P90. A little.

I don't love it but don't want to go through the Hell of replacing it either.

 

[Artie]

I tend to think more in terms of the package, than the magnet. I like both the Distortion, (big ceramic), and Invader, (triple big ceramic). I find neither to be harsh or overbearing.

 

[Lewguitar]

I tend to think more in terms of the package, than the magnet.

Bill Lawrence tried to convince me of that in a phone conversation once, saying that a ceramic magnet did not impart a particular tone to a pickup and used in a properly designed pickup, that pickup could sound as warm and organic as one with an alnico magnet.

I have yet to hear it if that's true.

They all sound like a science project to me rather than something I'm comfortable with using to make music.

I don't love the JB JR., the Duncan Custom, the Fralin SP43...on and on. I don't hate 'em but I don't love 'em either.

The sound of all of them feels like something is missing and what seems to be missing is an alnico magnet. :dunno:

 

[Artie]

I understand. But an Invader, (triple ceramics), in parallel, is sweet and smooth. Then again, I tend to play at lower volumes, in a home studio situation. That could have a lot to do with how I hear it.

 

[ToneFiddler]

i also agree with Mincer. taste changes.
once upon a time i like smooth, fat, round and warm. some sounds i loved back than i hate now.
for some aggressive stuff, Alnico 2 to 6 might not be enough.
but if you like "natural" then ALnico might be your best bet.
As we grow older, or should i say boring:laugh2:, we definately lose some edge and aggresiveness, as does our sound?

 

[esandes]

I tend to think more in terms of the package, than the magnet. I like both the Distortion, (big ceramic), and Invader, (triple big ceramic). I find neither to be harsh or overbearing.

I wouldn't describe ceramic as harsh or overbearing either. IMHO, I'd describe them as sterile or soulless.

 

[Artie]

I wouldn't describe ceramic as harsh or overbearing either. IMHO, I'd describe them as sterile or soulless.

That's cool, and everyone's setup is different. But I wouldn't describe the Distortion or Invader in either of those terms. I wonder if the fact that they're over-sized ceramics makes the difference?

 

[Lewguitar]

As we grow older, or should i say boring:laugh2:, we definitely lose some edge and aggressiveness, as does our sound?

Something I've learned in 55 years of playing is that the audience appreciates a guitarist not making their ears bleed. :arms:

I've also learned that I play better when I'm comfortable with my sound and not making my own ears bleed.

 

[Demanic]

Something I've learned in 55 years of playing is that the audience appreciates a guitarist not making their ears bleed. :arms:

I've also learned that I play better when I'm comfortable with my sound and not making my own ears bleed.

That's not necessarily so for a metal audience, especially a thrash metal audience.

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[esandes]

That's cool, and everyone's setup is different. But I wouldn't describe the Distortion or Invader in either of those terms. I wonder if the fact that they're over-sized ceramics makes the difference?

I meant compared with alnicos. Ceramics are fine for metal/heavy distortion but I don't play much of that.

 

[Lewguitar]

That's not necessarily so for a metal audience, especially a thrash metal audience.

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I wouldn't know.

 

[Demanic]

I do, thus the comment.
Returning to the op, one of my favorite guitars has an Alternative 8 in the bridge with an RCA4 Distortion neck in the neck slot. Usually I run the neck pickup in parallel.

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[orpheo]

A ceramic can be great in the right context but even then, I prefer pickups that around wound as if they need enough output to kill a dragon. My amp has gain aplenty and I don't need to push my amp, at all. I look for feel, tone, sound and less output. That's why one of my fav's is 'just' 13K with an Alnico II with 2 rows of hex polepieces.

About starts. I like 'm, but my love is the LP. hands down. It's home.

 

[Lewguitar]

Ceramic does have an impact on the tone though. Just like each of the various alnico magnets do.

I only use humbuckers based on the original Gibson PAF and none that I use measure over 9K.

Antiquitys are my favorites. 59's, PG's, Seth Lovers...

I have two sets of Seth Lovers and they're a little weak for me.

I like Antiquitys most of all but I don't always use the stock magnets.

Only guitar I have with high output humbuckers is an older Ernie Ball Axis.

Same guitar as the Eddie Van Halen model and Eddie had a lot of input on the Dimarzios in that one.

Those particular pickups sound pretty good and split well too when I pull up on the volume knob.

Wish it had a tone control sometimes, but I don't play it much.

Probably sell it someday.

 

[SoPhx]

Okay

All i know, is that my Epiphone came with A5 loaded P90's;
I really wanted to try swapping one or both magnets with a A2; but I haven't gotten this far yet.

Never tried anything else than A5, A2 and ceramic pickups.

Thanks for the post though, "you'll learn something new every day"

\m/

Those Epi P90s are sealed and you're gonna have a hard time swapping magnets in those.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

1. Have you tried roughcast A5? I prefer it to UOA5. You might like to compare UOA5 in the bridge pickup of one guitar and RCA5 in the bridge pickup of another. I have and that's how I noticed the discordant harmonics of UOA5 compared to RCA5.

2. I really like RCA3 for clean tones. Beautiful clean tones. But for the way I play, the lower output makes it less suitable for overdriven solos compared to A2, A4 or A5. I love using A3 for clean chords from the neck pickup and RCA2 in the bridge pickup for more overdriven tones.

3. I go back and forth about A4. I think I prefer it in a bridge pickup with A2 in the neck pickup. I do have a PRS with two A4 pickups but it's not my favorite sound. I also have a set of A4 Tom Holmes humbuckers in my Gibson ES-335. That's a fairly resonant semi-hollowbody as you know. A4 sounds better in it than it does in my solidbody PRS Singlecut. A4 is the magnet most often used in real 59 Les Pauls, according to Tom Holmes. When he worked for Gibson he found invoices for magnet purchases in 1959 and he says that's what Gibson purchased most. That may be, but I prefer RCA2.

I do prefer roughcast A5 to polished, though I've found the difference to be fairly subtle, far less change than a swap to UOA5.
Also own a couple of old Duncan 59s with the black US- made mags; these seem to sound more like roughcast than the newer ones do.

I'm interested to try A3 in a stronger wind. It really does lack power in PAF winds - that's why I've only tried it in neck pickups so far.
Someone hereabouts once posted that an A3 Custom is nice. I intend to try that someday soon.



I too have mixed feelings about A4. I have factory McCarty pickups in one of my PRSs; they're just okay. The guitar is all korina and very lively so I think it should have a ton of personality, but it takes a fair amount of gain before its true colors begin to shine with the stock A4s.

I find the A4 Holmes set head and shoulders above the McCartys. And I have a Wizz A4 set that really woke up a fairly lackluster guitar. Which has led me to the opinion that A4 likely is pretty sensitive to the coils as well as needing the a good match in the wood. I agree with the general consensus that in the right situation it can sound downright godly, but that it can also be pretty picky. Maybe more forgiving in neck position IMO.

As for the original PAFs with A4, the best of them of course are legendary. And they're nearly all in good wood by now. Yet I also have a sneaking suspicion that their reputation for tonal unpredictablility could be due partly to the finicky character of A4, and not just their famously inconsistent coil pairings.



I do like a 9K-ish bridge pickup with A2. I've got a Pearly Gates Plus with A2 in it; that one sounds good enough that I intend to swap an A2 into the PG+ in my Showmaster one of these days. I hardly ever pull that guitar out though.

Also have a JB I've been meaning to send to the Customshop so MJ can wind it to '78 specs (or maybe S-Deco, I haven't made up my mind yet) for bridge position on another PRS.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Over on the Tele forum there's a member with a professional background in science & engineering. He's got high quality test equipment and has devoted a great deal of time to testing pickups & magnets, posting many useful traces & graphs over the years.

He maintains steadfastly that the various numbered alnico grades have absolutely no effect on tone.
According to him they differ only in overall strength, nothing else.

I cited several instances where mag swaps have resulted in noticeable changes for me: not just altered tone but also significant effects on fingertouch and looseness vs tightness, especially in the lows.

I suggested perhaps some subtleties could exist in the dynamic interactions between strings, magnet, and coil - especially with gain - that his lab tests, however thorough, might not be measuring.

He dismissed my experiences (and all others) as being related to changes in setup and perceived differences due to confirmation bias.

He says that ears can't be trusted, that he's proven scientifically that there is not - cannot possibly be - any difference.

And he challenges anyone to submit laboratory proof of any change.

Eventually I gave up arguing. Mag swaps have made pickups sound and feel significantly different to me.

And for me, that's enough.

 

[Clint 55]

He must be deaf as eff.

 

[Clint 55]

So this A2/A8 has had some time to settle in and it's not sounding bad. It for sure took away the organic tone that the pup had with double A3 but it sounds natural enough.. even if it's a bit of a compromise. It has the immediate attack, sturdy bass, and somewhat synthetic sound of A8 but to a lesser extent. I can't hear much effect from the A2 even though it's on top, sounds like it just chills the A8 some. After I made the A8 hybrid mags I thought I had screwed up somehow because other magnets wouldn't sit flush when attracted, they'd scoot over to the A8 side because A8 is so much stronger I guess. I'll post a clip later.

 

[ToneFiddler]

He must be deaf as eff.

lol
well a experiment with a degaussed A5 with the same charge as a A2 would be interesting.
i GUESS (but don't have anything to back this up) it still be different.

So this A2/A8 has had some time to settle in and it's not sounding bad. It for sure took away the organic tone, that the pup had with double A3 but it sounds natural enough. even if it's a bit of a compromise. It has the immediate attack, sturdy bass, and somewhat synthetic sound of A8 but to a lesser extent. I can't hear much effect from the A2 even though it's on top, sounds like it just chills the A8 some. After I made the A8 hybrid mags I thought I had screwed up somehow because other magnets wouldn't sit flush when attracted, they'd scoot over to the A8 side because A8 is so much stronger I guess. I'll post a clip later.

that's one concern i have regarding your double thick magnets: i fear they degausses each other over time.
but mixing magnets sure sounds interesting.

@OP: well from the descriptions i read, i'll never was keen to try an A8, now i am even more unmotivated to try it