Absolutely done with Alnico 8

[Clint 55]

I bond them then recharge them as 1 so they don't do that according to cermag.

 

[Lewguitar]

Over on the Tele forum there's a member with a professional background in science & engineering. He's got high quality test equipment and has devoted a great deal of time to testing pickups & magnets, posting many useful traces & graphs over the years.

He maintains steadfastly that the various numbered alnico grades have absolutely no effect on tone.
According to him they differ only in overall strength, nothing else.

I cited several instances where mag swaps have resulted in noticeable changes for me: not just altered tone but also significant effects on fingertouch and looseness vs tightness, especially in the lows.

I suggested perhaps some subtleties could exist in the dynamic interactions between strings, magnet, and coil - especially with gain - that his lab tests, however thorough, might not be measuring.

He dismissed my experiences (and all others) as being related to changes in setup and perceived differences due to confirmation bias.

He says that ears can't be trusted, that he's proven scientifically that there is not - cannot possibly be - any difference.

And he challenges anyone to submit laboratory proof of any change.

Eventually I gave up arguing. Mag swaps have made pickups sound and feel significantly different to me.

And for me, that's enough.

I trust my heart and feelings more than lab equipment.

Not that I'm a great musician, I'm not. But I'm sure all genuinely great musicians would agree with that.

One of my tests when I'm auditioning a new guitar is to notice if it makes me feel creative.

Does it make me stop thinking?

Does it inspire a new song that seems to appear out of "nowhere"?.

 

[Mincer]

Over on the Tele forum there's a member with a professional background in science & engineering. He's got high quality test equipment and has devoted a great deal of time to testing pickups & magnets, posting many useful traces & graphs over the years.

He maintains steadfastly that the various numbered alnico grades have absolutely no effect on tone.
According to him they differ only in overall strength, nothing else.

I cited several instances where mag swaps have resulted in noticeable changes for me: not just altered tone but also significant effects on fingertouch and looseness vs tightness, especially in the lows.

I suggested perhaps some subtleties could exist in the dynamic interactions between strings, magnet, and coil - especially with gain - that his lab tests, however thorough, might not be measuring.

He dismissed my experiences (and all others) as being related to changes in setup and perceived differences due to confirmation bias.

He says that ears can't be trusted, that he's proven scientifically that there is not - cannot possibly be - any difference.

And he challenges anyone to submit laboratory proof of any change.

Eventually I gave up arguing. Mag swaps have made pickups sound and feel significantly different to me.

And for me, that's enough.

I know him, and I banned him from this forum for inciting huge fights here. His problem is that the only data he recognizes is his own. And he is an insufferable know-it-all, who doesn't know it all.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Never really "gotten" the love for A2, personally. At least in humbuckers. I liked it in the Phat Cat I used to have (in context, really, matched with a vintage output bridge humbucker), but I felt it just softened and weakened humbuckers too much.

Didn't really like the RCA5 magnet in the WLH too much either, TBH. I mean, it wasn't bad, but I always preferred a good old '59 in the bridge position. Don't know how much it has to do with the wind and how much it has to do with the magnet, but I liked the firm low-end and snarling highs of the '59 better. It sounded more like I'd expect a PAF-type to sound like.

So polished A5 for me all day long.

 

[Lewguitar]

Never really "gotten" the love for A2, personally. At least in humbuckers. I liked it in the Phat Cat I used to have (in context, really, matched with a vintage output bridge humbucker), but I felt it just softened and weakened humbuckers too much.

Didn't really like the RCA5 magnet in the WLH too much either, TBH. I mean, it wasn't bad, but I always preferred a good old '59 in the bridge position. Don't know how much it has to do with the wind and how much it has to do with the magnet, but I liked the firm low-end and snarling highs of the '59 better. It sounded more like I'd expect a PAF-type to sound like.

So polished A5 for me all day long.

I can see that.

But have you actually owned a guitar with 50's pafs?

I have and most don't sound like a Duncan 59 and don't have snarling highs.

I do have two guitars with Duncan 59's though.

I like them too!

 

[ToneFiddler]

Something I've learned in 55 years of playing is that the audience appreciates a guitarist not making their ears bleed. :arms:

I've also learned that I play better when I'm comfortable with my sound and not making my own ears bleed.

one could say an invader, alternative 8 or C8 is less bright on the ears than a pafish wind
i play better if i like the sound, too, but of course i wouldn't describe my current sound as harsh or ear bleeding, but i am pretty sure somebody would.

by the way i wouldn't describe those legendary LP sounds from mike bloomfields supersession and eric clapton and the bluesbreakers as smooth. there is a lot of messy distortion from those old farty amps. i know some love it. me not so much.

 

[Lewguitar]

one could say an invader, alternative 8 or C8 is less bright on the ears than a pafish wind
i play better if i like the sound, too, but of course i wouldn't describe my current sound as harsh or ear bleeding, but i am pretty sure somebody would.

by the way i wouldn't describe those legendary LP sounds from mike bloomfields supersession and eric clapton and the bluesbreakers as smooth. there is a lot of messy distortion from those old farty amps. i know some love it. me not so much.

Those amps weren't old when they were using them in the 1960's. They were brand new!

Check out Clapton's smooth warm tones from back in the day.

I'm old enough to have seen Clapton live, in Cream, playing this guitar.

Boy it's weird being the same age as old people! :scared:

 

[JOLLY]

I never heard what the big deal with the A8 was to begin with. I remember when just about everyone here got on an A8 kick. I just stayed the same.

 

[Lewguitar]

I never heard what the big deal with the A8 was to begin with. I remember when just about everyone here got on an A8 kick. I just stayed the same.

You still rocking the Duncan Jazz model?

 

[JOLLY]

You still rocking the Duncan Jazz model?

Occasionally. The majority of the time I play a Charvel with a set of Blackouts. However, I do recall Frank saying that the Blackouts were somewhat based off of the Jazz Model.

 

[Lewguitar]

Occasionally. The majority of the time I play a Charvel with a set of Blackouts. However, I do recall Frank saying that the Blackouts were somewhat based off of the Jazz Model.

So you're not playing the Les Paul as much? Still have the Marshall?

My gear has changed a lot too.

Sold most of my stuff to pay bills and when I got back on my feet replaced my amps with Blackstar and Vox and my guitars with PRS.

 

[JOLLY]

So you're not playing the Les Paul as much? Still have the Marshall?

My gear has changed a lot too.

Sold most of my stuff to pay bills and when I got back on my feet replaced my amps with Blackstar and Vox and my guitars with PRS.

I sold some of my Les Pauls and other Gibsons that I didn't play that much. I figured somebody should be playing them instead of them sitting in a case in a closet. I still have all of my amps and my wall of full stacks, but the only thing I play through now is my Fractal AX8. I can get a multitude of sounds/tones out of it that sound great, and I can do it at a moderate volume.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

He must be deaf as eff.

Intellectual deafness.

To be fair, his approach imposes significant limitations on his conclusions: for precise consistently repeatable conditions, the tests are performed with repeated single plucks of similar intensity. So dynamic variations are excluded completely. Also, only a dead-clean input is used - no gain to accentuate all the qualities that are subtle without drive.

It seems to me there still should be audible changes, which would be evident on a scope and in frequency traces.

IMO the real problem is not the equipment, it's a closed mind. Not just the attitude that "If you can't prove it in the lab, it doesn't exist." That's a frustrating yet understandable element of the hard-science approach. What a galls me is the egotism, the unshakeable certainty that no detail could possibly have escaped his analysis.

Some cannot admit that their opinions ever could change. I've had experience with individuals like this; they view it as conviction, strength of character. What it really amounts to an inability to accept anything outside their conception of the way things are.
IMO that isn't merely unscientific, it's arrogant.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Those amps weren't old when they were using them in the 1960's. They were brand new!

Yes, but what i mean by this: those first amps really had low filtering.
that really makes them sound and feel very organic because of the sag,
BUT it brings also some effects with them which i really hate.
for one those old amps have something about them, that always sounds kind of broken to me.
i like much tighter amps with a more "even clear grit" and A LOT less sag. less messy

Check out Clapton's smooth warm tones from back in the day.

I'm old enough to have seen Clapton live, in Cream, playing this guitar.

Boy it's weird being the same age as old people! :scared:

sorry, there is no tone in there i like. always hear that rotten messy low filtering amp sound or do you mean that muffled women tone with the tone rolled back with smooth? not my thing.
if you roll back the tone too much, to my ears the distortion grit get's very "porous". that's not what i would call smooth but raspy and muffled at the same time.
get the picture?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

So this A2/A8 has had some time to settle in and it's not sounding bad. It for sure took away the organic tone that the pup had with double A3 but it sounds natural enough.. even if it's a bit of a compromise. It has the immediate attack, sturdy bass, and somewhat synthetic sound of A8 but to a lesser extent. I can't hear much effect from the A2 even though it's on top, sounds like it just chills the A8 some. After I made the A8 hybrid mags I thought I had screwed up somehow because other magnets wouldn't sit flush when attracted, they'd scoot over to the A8 side because A8 is so much stronger I guess. I'll post a clip later.

I think the difference in power between A2 and A8 could be great enough to make their positioning irrelevant.
A4/A5 or A4/A2 are closer in strength; perhaps in combos like that one field wouldn't be so dominant.

Another thought: it occurs to me that since the magnets are edge-on to the poles & screws, it might not matter too much which side of a hybrid bar is on top.
Have you tried both ways with other combos and noticed a difference?

Very curious about hybrid mags; it's new territory.

 

[Clint 55]

I tried my A2/A5 both ways and noticed that the mag on top had more influence. A8 might just take over everything like you say, but I haven't tried it with the A8 on top yet.

 

[esandes]

Over on the Tele forum there's a member with a professional background in science & engineering. He's got high quality test equipment and has devoted a great deal of time to testing pickups & magnets, posting many useful traces & graphs over the years.

He maintains steadfastly that the various numbered alnico grades have absolutely no effect on tone.
According to him they differ only in overall strength, nothing else.

I cited several instances where mag swaps have resulted in noticeable changes for me: not just altered tone but also significant effects on fingertouch and looseness vs tightness, especially in the lows.

I suggested perhaps some subtleties could exist in the dynamic interactions between strings, magnet, and coil - especially with gain - that his lab tests, however thorough, might not be measuring.

He dismissed my experiences (and all others) as being related to changes in setup and perceived differences due to confirmation bias.

He says that ears can't be trusted, that he's proven scientifically that there is not - cannot possibly be - any difference.

And he challenges anyone to submit laboratory proof of any change.

Eventually I gave up arguing. Mag swaps have made pickups sound and feel significantly different to me.

And for me, that's enough.

If the guy on the other forum didn't use an oscilloscope then it's not a complete experiment as far as I'm concerned.

A stronger magnet has more string pull too. There's no denying the effects of that.

 

[misterwhizzy]

As an afterthought, has anyone here ever tried UOA8 in a humbucker? I didn't even know such a thing existed until I looked it up.
A looser feel and some extra chewiness might soften the A8's in-your-face attitude but still offer some extra body.

I kind of wish I hadn't read this post.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

If the guy on the other forum didn't use an oscilloscope then it's not a complete experiment as far as I'm concerned.

A stronger magnet has more string pull too. There's no denying the effects of that.

Yah, he's got scopes and pretty sophisticated frequency plotting.
It's amazing that he can claim the only difference between various alnicos is their strength.
But there's zero chance of persuading him he might be missing some of the subtler aspects.
Eventually I gave up trying.
He has fashioned his own reality, one in which all data just serves to confirm his existing conclusions.

 

[pittbull]

First Van Halen album,ibanez destroyer with Super 70 pickups alnico 8 magnet all non-trem songs were done with that