Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
- Thread starter Emopunk
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Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Whoa, you got me pull a trigger with this info.. Should I proceed? CL80 that would be.. (What is c90?)
Whoa, you got me pull a trigger with this info.. Should I proceed? CL80 that would be.. (What is c90?)
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
c90 is the mesa version of the cl80,,,,,,,only a slight difference.
c90 is the mesa version of the cl80,,,,,,,only a slight difference.
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Yes I figured it out in the meanwhile with some googling.. So to sum it up:
Classic Lead 80 in open extension cab + G12M-65 will stay in my HT Club 40. Does that sound good enough?
Yes I figured it out in the meanwhile with some googling.. So to sum it up:
Classic Lead 80 in open extension cab + G12M-65 will stay in my HT Club 40. Does that sound good enough?
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
This might be a naive question, but would one also have to consider the wattage? If you are running, say, a 25 w 97 db speaker and a 100 w 100 db speaker together, I would assume that the larger, stronger would not be driven nearly as hard as its companion, and that the difference between them therefore would not be as large as 3 db in practice?
This might be a naive question, but would one also have to consider the wattage? If you are running, say, a 25 w 97 db speaker and a 100 w 100 db speaker together, I would assume that the larger, stronger would not be driven nearly as hard as its companion, and that the difference between them therefore would not be as large as 3 db in practice?
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
No, the power handling won't matter to how loud they are.
No, the power handling won't matter to how loud they are.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Yes.
There could be differences in percieved loudness if the frequency responses are different because we hear some frequencies better than others, and if the impedance are different it could cause one speaker to draw more power. Nonetheless, the power handling rating has no effect on the efficiency.
Yes.
There could be differences in percieved loudness if the frequency responses are different because we hear some frequencies better than others, and if the impedance are different it could cause one speaker to draw more power. Nonetheless, the power handling rating has no effect on the efficiency.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
I'm sure you're right, but I have a very hard time wrapping my head around this, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some more.
If I catch your drift, that would mean that there is basically no correspondence between the wattage a particular speaker is driven at and its output? Will a 200w speaker really be equally loud when getting fed with 40 w (or 0.1 w) as 200 w? Then how do we get different volume from the same speaker in the first place?
I'm sure you're right, but I have a very hard time wrapping my head around this, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some more.
If I catch your drift, that would mean that there is basically no correspondence between the wattage a particular speaker is driven at and its output? Will a 200w speaker really be equally loud when getting fed with 40 w (or 0.1 w) as 200 w? Then how do we get different volume from the same speaker in the first place?
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
If you're really liking the m65 with the blackstar then maybe you should stay with a model that's in the same ballpark tonally.
The cl80 is quite brash and stiff compared to the m65. The h75 or a v30 would both be closer to the m65 while still adding their own flavor.
If you're really liking the m65 with the blackstar then maybe you should stay with a model that's in the same ballpark tonally.
The cl80 is quite brash and stiff compared to the m65. The h75 or a v30 would both be closer to the m65 while still adding their own flavor.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
He was saying that the wattage a speaker is driven with combined with its efficiency are what determine volume. A speaker's power handling merely determines how much wattage it can handle without being damaged.
In your example you're only running 40W, so the 100W and 200W power handling aren't relevant. The relevant figures are the 40W input and 100db sensitivity.
He was saying that the wattage a speaker is driven with combined with its efficiency are what determine volume. A speaker's power handling merely determines how much wattage it can handle without being damaged.
In your example you're only running 40W, so the 100W and 200W power handling aren't relevant. The relevant figures are the 40W input and 100db sensitivity.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
If so, I'm either not getting something across or severely misunderstanding something, as this sounds very much like what my impression has been. If the output of a speaker is partially being decided by how many watts it is fed, then I also take it that a speaker with a higher power handling is likely to provide less output when one is far away from that maximum. A speaker that can produce the same output, but handle fewer w, I assume is likely to reach the top of its capacity sooner?
I think the whole thing can be boiled down to a single yes/no question: will a 100 w speaker being driven at 0.1 w produce the same output as if it is driven at 100 w? I know it is a silly question, but I have to use at a point of departure, as something seems to be lost in translation between us.
If the answer truly is yes, then I'll shut up and go home.
If so, I'm either not getting something across or severely misunderstanding something, as this sounds very much like what my impression has been. If the output of a speaker is partially being decided by how many watts it is fed, then I also take it that a speaker with a higher power handling is likely to provide less output when one is far away from that maximum. A speaker that can produce the same output, but handle fewer w, I assume is likely to reach the top of its capacity sooner?
I think the whole thing can be boiled down to a single yes/no question: will a 100 w speaker being driven at 0.1 w produce the same output as if it is driven at 100 w? I know it is a silly question, but I have to use at a point of departure, as something seems to be lost in translation between us.
If the answer truly is yes, then I'll shut up and go home.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
This impression is incorrect; sensitivity and power handling aren't related in any way. The G12M handles 25W while the G12T-75 handles 75W; both have 97db sensitivity. This means that both will produce the same total volume (db) when driven with an equivalent signal. For example at 0.1W, 1W, and 10W they'll produce the same volume. At some point beyond 25W the G12M will blow while the T75 won't, so the T75 will be much louder at it's maximum wattage.
This impression is incorrect; sensitivity and power handling aren't related in any way. The G12M handles 25W while the G12T-75 handles 75W; both have 97db sensitivity. This means that both will produce the same total volume (db) when driven with an equivalent signal. For example at 0.1W, 1W, and 10W they'll produce the same volume. At some point beyond 25W the G12M will blow while the T75 won't, so the T75 will be much louder at it's maximum wattage.
No. The speaker will be far louder at 100W than 0.1W, and its sensitivity will determine how much louder.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Okay, fair enough; thanks. I was under the impression that sensitivity was an indicator of a speaker's max output. As I said, I don't really know much about this, as it hasn't really been a matter for me until recently.
Okay, fair enough; thanks. I was under the impression that sensitivity was an indicator of a speaker's max output. As I said, I don't really know much about this, as it hasn't really been a matter for me until recently.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Sensitivity is a standard way to compare how loud speakers are. In my previous post, I mentioned that the G12M and G12T-75 both have a sensitivity of 97db. What that means is that they'll produce 97db at a distance of 1 meter when driven with 1 watt.
Sensitivity is a standard way to compare how loud speakers are. In my previous post, I mentioned that the G12M and G12T-75 both have a sensitivity of 97db. What that means is that they'll produce 97db at a distance of 1 meter when driven with 1 watt.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Exactly. It is all clear now – one wrong presumtion brought the whole house of cards down. But at least I know for later! Thanks again, and my apologies to the OP for so badly derailing the thread!
Exactly. It is all clear now – one wrong presumtion brought the whole house of cards down. But at least I know for later! Thanks again, and my apologies to the OP for so badly derailing the thread!
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
You know, after watching this video I thought that the Classic Lead is actually more "musical" and less brash and stiff than V30. That's why I got it in the equation. I am really loving the sound this guy is getting through it.
You know, after watching this video I thought that the Classic Lead is actually more "musical" and less brash and stiff than V30. That's why I got it in the equation. I am really loving the sound this guy is getting through it.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: Acceptable sensitivity difference when coupling two different speakers?
Though to be fair, the frequency range being affected by the impedence spike from an overheated voice coil is probably below the range (or at the bottom edge) of what is audible from a standard tuned guitar and speaker. It also depends on how your amp handles the impedence spike from the heated voice coil.
The upshot being that a speaker driven at its operational limit may seem louder than a less fragile speaker with the same sensitivity because the heated voice coil is changing its tonality.
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=7059
This is correct, though max wattage does have some effect as a voice coil being driven to its limit will exhibit different behavior than one which is not.
Though to be fair, the frequency range being affected by the impedence spike from an overheated voice coil is probably below the range (or at the bottom edge) of what is audible from a standard tuned guitar and speaker. It also depends on how your amp handles the impedence spike from the heated voice coil.
The upshot being that a speaker driven at its operational limit may seem louder than a less fragile speaker with the same sensitivity because the heated voice coil is changing its tonality.
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=7059
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