zanshin777
New member
While assessing electric guitars, is it good that louder unplugged guitar is better than others? Is loudness a criteria for the wood quality for unplugged electric guitars?
Acoustically loud electric guitars.
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TheLivingDead
Dawn Of The Shred
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
It can be, along with overall build quality and hardware. A great guitar will resonate really well to where it vibrates in your hands when you strum it. I always play a guitar acoustically before I make up my mind about it. The louder, more resonant, the better.
It can be, along with overall build quality and hardware. A great guitar will resonate really well to where it vibrates in your hands when you strum it. I always play a guitar acoustically before I make up my mind about it. The louder, more resonant, the better.
J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
I think it points to a guitar where the wood is going to be more involved in the amplified tone of the instrument, if that makes any sense. If nothing else, a guitar that physically resonates in my hands makes for a more enjoyable playing experience.
I think it points to a guitar where the wood is going to be more involved in the amplified tone of the instrument, if that makes any sense. If nothing else, a guitar that physically resonates in my hands makes for a more enjoyable playing experience.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
A solidbody that is acoustically loud can be a sign of good things but is not necessarily an indication by itself .... I have heard loud pawn-shop guitars that still didn't sound good when plugged in.
What you want to find is resonance, but GOOD resonance. Try putting your ear against the guitar and then picking the open strings. With your ear against the wood, you can get a better idea of what kind of resonances the guitar might have to offer. There might be a loud 'kechang!' when the strings are first attacked, but what you really want to hear is what comes after the initial attack .... some sort of resonant quality that rings on and gives you some idea of what the wood has to offer. Is it honky ? Is it dark, or bright ? Does it ring in a musical way and sustain well ?
Move your ear around and listen to different spots on the neck and body. If possible, try to fret a few notes or chords in different places on the fretboard while listening with your ear on the guitar. Yeah i know you might look crazy doing this in a music store, but try it and you'll see just how much can be learned by listening like this.
So, in brief .... acoustically loud can be an early indicator of a potentially good instrument, but it is not the whole story.
A solidbody that is acoustically loud can be a sign of good things but is not necessarily an indication by itself .... I have heard loud pawn-shop guitars that still didn't sound good when plugged in.
What you want to find is resonance, but GOOD resonance. Try putting your ear against the guitar and then picking the open strings. With your ear against the wood, you can get a better idea of what kind of resonances the guitar might have to offer. There might be a loud 'kechang!' when the strings are first attacked, but what you really want to hear is what comes after the initial attack .... some sort of resonant quality that rings on and gives you some idea of what the wood has to offer. Is it honky ? Is it dark, or bright ? Does it ring in a musical way and sustain well ?
Move your ear around and listen to different spots on the neck and body. If possible, try to fret a few notes or chords in different places on the fretboard while listening with your ear on the guitar. Yeah i know you might look crazy doing this in a music store, but try it and you'll see just how much can be learned by listening like this.
So, in brief .... acoustically loud can be an early indicator of a potentially good instrument, but it is not the whole story.
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
For loudness, I've found that guitars with hollow cavities under the pickguard tend to sound louder than solid tops... so I don't put a whole lot of weight behind that measure.
I don't put a whole lot of weight behind resonance either. Unamplified Les Pauls for instance sound rather dead compared to a lot of other guitars, yet amplified they sound outstanding. Unplugged, a solid Les Paul will also resonante and sound different from a chambered or weight relieved Les Paul, yet through an amplifier they sound much more similar.
For loudness, I've found that guitars with hollow cavities under the pickguard tend to sound louder than solid tops... so I don't put a whole lot of weight behind that measure.
I don't put a whole lot of weight behind resonance either. Unamplified Les Pauls for instance sound rather dead compared to a lot of other guitars, yet amplified they sound outstanding. Unplugged, a solid Les Paul will also resonante and sound different from a chambered or weight relieved Les Paul, yet through an amplifier they sound much more similar.
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
For loudness, I've found that guitars with hollow cavities under the pickguard tend to sound louder than solid tops... so I don't put a whole lot of weight behind that measure.
I don't put a whole lot of weight behind resonance either. Unamplified Les Pauls for instance sound rather dead compared to a lot of other guitars, yet amplified they sound outstanding. Unplugged, a solid Les Paul will also resonante and sound different from a chambered or weight relieved Les Paul, yet through an amplifier they sound much more similar.
For loudness, I've found that guitars with hollow cavities under the pickguard tend to sound louder than solid tops... so I don't put a whole lot of weight behind that measure.
I don't put a whole lot of weight behind resonance either. Unamplified Les Pauls for instance sound rather dead compared to a lot of other guitars, yet amplified they sound outstanding. Unplugged, a solid Les Paul will also resonante and sound different from a chambered or weight relieved Les Paul, yet through an amplifier they sound much more similar.
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
For example....ash is a really resonant wood. The hard rings means it is loud acoustically. Whether it works as a whole with the neck/fingerboard wood will depend on the individual pieces.
My ash strat is louder than the 2 alder ones....however the alder ones have much better sustain.
For example....ash is a really resonant wood. The hard rings means it is loud acoustically. Whether it works as a whole with the neck/fingerboard wood will depend on the individual pieces.
My ash strat is louder than the 2 alder ones....however the alder ones have much better sustain.
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
I'm not at all convinced that there is an appreciable impact upon the amplified sound, but since I'm standing with my body pressed against the thing, there IS an impact on my experience playing the thing. I find a resonant body to be a bit more satisfying to play, but I think it's almost entirely a psychological distinction rather than an acoustical one.
I'm not at all convinced that there is an appreciable impact upon the amplified sound, but since I'm standing with my body pressed against the thing, there IS an impact on my experience playing the thing. I find a resonant body to be a bit more satisfying to play, but I think it's almost entirely a psychological distinction rather than an acoustical one.
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
I think there needs to be a distinction between "loud" and "resonant". I've owned "loud" guitars before that sounded pretty bad plugged in and the ones I own now are simply resonant. If you can feel the vibration throughout the guitar, I don't think it's possible to have it sound bad plugged in (at least that's my take from over 10 years of buying and selling guitars).
I think there needs to be a distinction between "loud" and "resonant". I've owned "loud" guitars before that sounded pretty bad plugged in and the ones I own now are simply resonant. If you can feel the vibration throughout the guitar, I don't think it's possible to have it sound bad plugged in (at least that's my take from over 10 years of buying and selling guitars).
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
your old vintage guitars are acoustically louder, more resonant, and for a vintage tone thats great, but with my active equipped Zakk, I want a real heavy non acoustic sound..you can still hear the strings when plucked, but its more just the strings and not so much the wood .
your old vintage guitars are acoustically louder, more resonant, and for a vintage tone thats great, but with my active equipped Zakk, I want a real heavy non acoustic sound..you can still hear the strings when plucked, but its more just the strings and not so much the wood .
J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
^ That makes sense. As much as I fuss over guitars that I want vintage tones from, I don't care about most of that stuff when I'm looking for modern or high-gain sounds.
Although, some metal guitars just sound better than others, even when we're talking about hot pickups and amps. Maybe someday, players will fawn over the specs on vintage Jackson, ESP, and Ibanez metal machines, and the really special ones will be worth tens of thousands of dollars because of resonance, or rarity, or how they got the poly just right.
^ That makes sense. As much as I fuss over guitars that I want vintage tones from, I don't care about most of that stuff when I'm looking for modern or high-gain sounds.
Although, some metal guitars just sound better than others, even when we're talking about hot pickups and amps. Maybe someday, players will fawn over the specs on vintage Jackson, ESP, and Ibanez metal machines, and the really special ones will be worth tens of thousands of dollars because of resonance, or rarity, or how they got the poly just right.
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Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
Crusty saved me from typing. That pretty much sums it up IMO.
Crusty saved me from typing. That pretty much sums it up IMO.
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
As has been said many, many times - the whole is a sum of the parts.
But it also holds the strings at pitch and forms an anchor so they can vibrate to their fullest extent. Lets face it, its a MECHANICALLY operated and ELECTRICALLY amplified device. Wood will dampen the strings in a certain pattern, which is how each species gets its 'resonant tone'
As has been said many, many times - the whole is a sum of the parts.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
As a general rule of thumb, any guitar that sounds good unplugged is a lot easier to make sound good through an amp.
The volume of that unplugged sound isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but it like St Genesis said, it has a psychological affect on my perception of it.
As a general rule of thumb, any guitar that sounds good unplugged is a lot easier to make sound good through an amp.
The volume of that unplugged sound isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but it like St Genesis said, it has a psychological affect on my perception of it.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
Highly resonant guitars give me the craps. TMI, yes, but after about 5 minutes of playing a guitar that resonates a lot, I gotta take a dump. That's why I never ate before a gig when I had my Les Paul.
When I get stuffed up from too much cheese, I grab a resonant axe and wail for a bit on some Sabbath, then scurry to the john for a bombing run.
The loudest guitar I have right now is an old Vantage FV575 Matsumoku-era Flying V.
However, it's not the best sounding guitar I have, by far. It doesn't sound bad plugged in, but I have others that are acoustically lower-volumed but sound tons better amplified.
Heck, even old plywood Hondos sounded nice acoustically.
While wood resonance does have an impact on the strings, if too much vibration passes out of the wood and is not retained, you lose that internal feedback which adds to string sustain. Rather than the waves feeding back to the string anchor points and the strings themselves, it dissipates outwardly. String vibration dies more rapidly than with a denser wood, which reflects the vibrations back to the point of origin.
This is one reason why most electric guitars have metal bridges and tailpieces sitting on metal pins mounted in metal inserts jammed into the body, rather than simply have a metal bridge on a wooden riser glued to the surface and a free-floating trapeze-style tailpiece like an old Jazz semihollow.
For a semihollow, you want those vibrations to jump out of the guitar acoustically (for venues small enough for the guitar to be heard unamplified). For a solidbody, you want them reflected back into itself.
Highly resonant guitars give me the craps. TMI, yes, but after about 5 minutes of playing a guitar that resonates a lot, I gotta take a dump. That's why I never ate before a gig when I had my Les Paul.
When I get stuffed up from too much cheese, I grab a resonant axe and wail for a bit on some Sabbath, then scurry to the john for a bombing run.
The loudest guitar I have right now is an old Vantage FV575 Matsumoku-era Flying V.
However, it's not the best sounding guitar I have, by far. It doesn't sound bad plugged in, but I have others that are acoustically lower-volumed but sound tons better amplified.
Heck, even old plywood Hondos sounded nice acoustically.
While wood resonance does have an impact on the strings, if too much vibration passes out of the wood and is not retained, you lose that internal feedback which adds to string sustain. Rather than the waves feeding back to the string anchor points and the strings themselves, it dissipates outwardly. String vibration dies more rapidly than with a denser wood, which reflects the vibrations back to the point of origin.
This is one reason why most electric guitars have metal bridges and tailpieces sitting on metal pins mounted in metal inserts jammed into the body, rather than simply have a metal bridge on a wooden riser glued to the surface and a free-floating trapeze-style tailpiece like an old Jazz semihollow.
For a semihollow, you want those vibrations to jump out of the guitar acoustically (for venues small enough for the guitar to be heard unamplified). For a solidbody, you want them reflected back into itself.
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
Correlation: yes.
Causal relationship: not necessarily.
Correlation: yes.
Causal relationship: not necessarily.
ibanezrocks
HardtailPisser
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
If it is loud AND sounds good, then it is a good sign. Loudness on it's own means nothing. It could be due to large cavities / being hollow / having a large surface area (i.e. flying V or explorer). The thickness of the finish will also have a big impact in the loudness. Faded series Gibsons are typically pretty loud unplugged.
If it is loud AND sounds good, then it is a good sign. Loudness on it's own means nothing. It could be due to large cavities / being hollow / having a large surface area (i.e. flying V or explorer). The thickness of the finish will also have a big impact in the loudness. Faded series Gibsons are typically pretty loud unplugged.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Acoustically loud electric guitars.
+1. The condition of the strings also makes a difference on how loud it is acoustically. You could pick a guitar that's loud unplugged, simply because it has newer strings, and maybe bypass one with better-toned wood, that has old dead strings. Same goes for set ups and intonantion: how many guys pick the guitar in a store that 'speaks' to them (after trying a dozen), when they're really just being swayed by the set up? :eyecrazy: I give no credibility to how an electric guitar sounds acoustically; what matters is the tones that come thru when it's amplied. You don't play an electric on stage unplugged. PU's and amps bring out parts of the EQ that you're not going to hear acoustically. Human ears aren't that good.
I've bought new and used guitars that sounded like crap, that I could hardly play, and after a good set up, and usually a PU and/or mag swap, became great instruments. A lot of times the stock PU's may not be the best ones for that particular piece of wood. This is stuff you can't tell in a store. Depending on the time of year (and temp and humidity) woods swell and contract, set ups and intonations change accordingly, & guys with sweaty hands play them for months. Strings corrode. Do you think the employees fix the set ups and change the strings? How can anyone waltz in and make some pronouncement on what sounds and plays the best, like they're part of some elite society with special skills. You can believe anything you want, but it doesn't change reality.
+1. The condition of the strings also makes a difference on how loud it is acoustically. You could pick a guitar that's loud unplugged, simply because it has newer strings, and maybe bypass one with better-toned wood, that has old dead strings. Same goes for set ups and intonantion: how many guys pick the guitar in a store that 'speaks' to them (after trying a dozen), when they're really just being swayed by the set up? :eyecrazy: I give no credibility to how an electric guitar sounds acoustically; what matters is the tones that come thru when it's amplied. You don't play an electric on stage unplugged. PU's and amps bring out parts of the EQ that you're not going to hear acoustically. Human ears aren't that good.
I've bought new and used guitars that sounded like crap, that I could hardly play, and after a good set up, and usually a PU and/or mag swap, became great instruments. A lot of times the stock PU's may not be the best ones for that particular piece of wood. This is stuff you can't tell in a store. Depending on the time of year (and temp and humidity) woods swell and contract, set ups and intonations change accordingly, & guys with sweaty hands play them for months. Strings corrode. Do you think the employees fix the set ups and change the strings? How can anyone waltz in and make some pronouncement on what sounds and plays the best, like they're part of some elite society with special skills. You can believe anything you want, but it doesn't change reality.
