Adding a Neck Angle

[Dave Locher]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

No, the neck can sit as high or low off the face of the guitar as you like. It does not affect the action. As long as the neck and bridge are aligned relative to each other and the string height can be properly adjusted, it does not matter if the neck joins the body at an angle or straight on.

For a while around 1970 Gibson even made SGs with a no-angle neck.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I don't know if you can clearly see it in this image, but Rickenbacker guitars are built this way. The fingerboard sits way above the face of the guitar, with no angle at all.

 

[A_Cold_1]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I don't know if you can clearly see it in this image, but Rickenbacker guitars are built this way. The fingerboard sits way above the face of the guitar, with no angle at all.View attachment 97835

Interesting... however, I feel like that’d feel weird to play, the neck wouldn’t really be where you expect it to be, it be a few centimetres further no?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I was thinking about a shim, however, how steep of an angle would I need? This guitar is basically an Ernie Ball Music Man Axis, same shape, body thickness, and all of that stuff. Also would it be possible to just add the angle in the heel of the neck?

Only YOU can determine how much angle you need. There are ways to figure it out...draw it out on paper the way you need it (full scale) and measure it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I’m building a guitar for myself from scratch,
For me, routing an angled neck pocket isn’t possible,

Why is it not possible?! If you are building a guitar from scratch you have a router, right? Just get one of these...
https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Too.../Neck_Pocket_Routing_Template_for_Fender.html

and shim under the tail end of the template to the desired angle and rerout the neck pocket.

is it alright if I make the angle in the heel of the neck?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Don't even try! If you had too much neck angle and needed to reduce it slightly, then, yes, maybe, it could be ok. But only if you knew what you were doing and were very careful. But, if this is your first build then I'd say NO. Use shims.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Yea and those shims are kinda nominal or middle of the road that stew mac has, so Id suggest if you get one to get the thickest one and shave it on a flat surface on a sheet of sandpaper to fine tune it to your guitar or what you need to get some travel in your Floyd.

I use cardstock for shims if I need to get a little more pull up from my topmount OFR guitars, so you can try that or what Christopher suggest which is essentially the same concept which is you want to get the rear of the neck up a tad. Sometimes both and a little more on the rear.. depends.

Well, no. Don't try to sand the thickest shim to what you need. Just get several sizes and combine them to what works for you.

Also, don't use card stock. It is too soft and will absorb vibration and affect your tone and sustain. Hard wood is best, metal is ok.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

You can work out the required neck angle
what you need to do is to get a large piece of paper, and mark on a 1:1 scale,
the nut, where the body joins the neck, where the end of the fretboard is, and the bridge position. this will be the scale length.
then subtract the height of the fretboard with frets, from the bridge height.
draw a perpendicular line up from the bridge position,
now join that line to the end of the freboard position, creating a right angle triangle.
measure that angle..

thats it....

Yes.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Cut a piece of card stock, put it in the neck pocket. Put the guitar together. Play it. If you need more angle, make a thicker shim. Likewise, if you need a more slight angle, use a thinner shim. In all the time you’d spend calculating it, you could have it together and apart and know what it really needs, as opposed to what it should need.

Not cardstock. Use hardwood shims like StewMac sells.

 

[A_Cold_1]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Why is it not possible?! If you are building a guitar from scratch you have a router, right? Just get one of these...
https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Too.../Neck_Pocket_Routing_Template_for_Fender.html

and shim under the tail end of the template to the desired angle and rerout the neck pocket.



ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Don't even try! If you had too much neck angle and needed to reduce it slightly, then, yes, maybe, it could be ok. But only if you knew what you were doing and were very careful. But, if this is your first build then I'd say NO. Use shims.

No router... just some chisels, files and a rasp, a saw, sandpaper and an old 12v drill... Doesn’t sound like a lot but I’m pretty sure I can get it done

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Not cardstock. Use hardwood shims like StewMac sells.

Card stock does the trick as well. Maybe someday I’ll replace mine with a real shim, but for now, it seems to be doing ok.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

If that's the case, use the StewMac shims. Don't attempt to chisel, file, rasp, or sand the neck pocket. If you don't get it absolutely flat/level, your neck won't fit securely...it can rock up and down/left to right/front to back.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

You probably think that you have the skill to do it properly, but you DON'T! I've been wood working for over 60 years and building and modding custom guitars for 20 and it would be very rare that I would attempt to do that.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

You need as many business cards or toothpicks as it takes to make if feel/play well.

Angle will take care of itself...

 

[DonP]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

For a while around 1970 Gibson even made SGs with a no-angle neck.

And those are regarded as the worst SG's ever.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

And those are regarded as the worst SG's ever.

They are. I've played one. But the neck angle was the very least of the reasons why it sucked. Are you saying Rickenbacker doesn't know how to build a guitar?

Look, I LIKE an angled neck on my guitars. I own two bolt-neck guitars with TOMs and one with a wraparound. The Marauder and the homemade semi-hollow have the angle built into the neck heel. (No idea why that is so horrible, Doc? It has worked great on the Gibson for 42 years). The partscaster Tele is bolted on with a shim I made.

The op is asking how to do this. I think a shim would be best. I think a neck with the angle would be second best. I think a neck that sits proud of the face of the body would be third best. I think angling the neck pocket is fourth best. But I think the OP needs to decide what HE thinks is the best option and to do that I think he needs to know all the options.

 

[A_Cold_1]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

They are. I've played one. But the neck angle was the very least of the reasons why it sucked. Are you saying Rickenbacker doesn't know how to build a guitar?

Look, I LIKE an angled neck on my guitars. I own two bolt-neck guitars with TOMs and one with a wraparound. The Marauder and the homemade semi-hollow have the angle built into the neck heel. (No idea why that is so horrible, Doc? It has worked great on the Gibson for 42 years). The partscaster Tele is bolted on with a shim I made.

The op is asking how to do this. I think a shim would be best. I think a neck with the angle would be second best. I think a neck that sits proud of the face of the body would be third best. I think angling the neck pocket is fourth best. But I think the OP needs to decide what HE thinks is the best option and to do that I think he needs to know all the options.

Thanks for all those options! I’m still doing a small amount of planning on my build, and waiting for some parts/tools, so that’ll give me some time to figure out exactly what I need. I will most likely either shim the neck, or add it in the heel, now that I know angling the heel is possible. Thanks again for all the replies!

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Look, I LIKE an angled neck on my guitars. I own two bolt-neck guitars with TOMs and one with a wraparound. The Marauder and the homemade semi-hollow have the angle built into the neck heel. (No idea why that is so horrible, Doc? It has worked great on the Gibson for 42 years).

I have no idea why you don't read posts before commenting on them. I never even hinted that angled necks were "horrible". Just that it would be a bad idea for the OP to try to sand down the heal of his neck (or a shim, as suggested by metalchurch79) to try to create it. I'm talking about the process used to get to the final result.

Have you ever tried to sand something, even with a flat hard sanding block, and end up with a perfectly flat (side-to-side and front-to-back), even, and precisely angled surface? It is next to impossible. By anybody. You will always end up with a convex surface. In this case, the neck will not fit solidly in the neck pocket. It will rock. Not good! And to create a positive neck angle, like a Gibson, you have to carve a negative angle into the neck heal. That means leaving the end of the heal (toward the body) full thickness and cutting the heal thickness down thinner more toward the neck. I wouldn't begin to attempt that, even with a router and a custom template. Not because I am incapable of doing it, but because I am too smart to do it.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

I have no idea why you don't read posts before commenting on them. I never even hinted that angled necks were "horrible". Just that it would be a bad idea for the OP to try to sand down the heal of his neck (or a shim, as suggested by metalchurch79) to try to create it. I'm talking about the process used to get to the final result.

Have you ever tried to sand something, even with a flat hard sanding block, and end up with a perfectly flat (side-to-side and front-to-back), even, and precisely angled surface? It is next to impossible. By anybody. You will always end up with a convex surface. In this case, the neck will not fit solidly in the neck pocket. It will rock. Not good! And to create a positive neck angle, like a Gibson, you have to carve a negative angle into the neck heal. That means leaving the end of the heal (toward the body) full thickness and cutting the heal thickness down thinner more toward the neck. I wouldn't begin to attempt that, even with a router and a custom template. Not because I am incapable of doing it, but because I am too smart to do it.

I agree
If the body is yet to be made
Then a shallow body pocket is the correct answer

Angle the neck or raise the neck
Either one achieves the same results

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Considering there are so many gurus on this thread I wonder if you could address the difference of using shims versus angling the pocket?

Of course it's much easier to shim however I have always been under the impression that shimming reduces contact which could reduce sustain.

In my mind it's similar to cleaning up a neck pocket really well so that you get perfect contact at all points when you screw down the neck.

But the analogy could be wrong and I could be missing something. Is there any proof that shims reduce sustain?

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Adding a Neck Angle

Someone is going to claim to hear a measurable difference with shims, but I don’t. My two bolt on guitars (both higher end Ibanez ERGs) are both shimmed, one with card stock, the other wet/dry sandpaper, and I’m happy with the sustain.