Adding a third pickup

[TheMadGypsyBaron]

Hey guys!
I'm thinking about adding a pickup to the middle position of my Les Paul and wanted to get some outside input on pros and cons. I've tried thinking of pros and cons myself, and the many pros I've come up with far outweigh the one con I can think of (a possible loss of sustain due to added magnetic pull on the strings).
The pickup in mind is a DiMarzio Bluesbucker (sadly not a SD pickup :'( I know), since it seems to be neither specifically a neck or bridge specific pickup (so why not middle?!) and I would like a P90 type sound with the zebra coil uncovered look to match the rest of the guitar.

I would like some input on the idea. Specifically any cons, since I could only think of the one.
The routing and installation would not a con for me since I can do that easily, and the wiring in mind lets me get all 7 positions, so I'm not losing anything by adding it.

Thanks!

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I love the tone of 3 Humbucker guitars and some Gibson Black Beautys have 3 as well.

It is an irreversible mod, so there is that to keep in mind but I'd say go for it.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Adding a third pickup

The only cons are it will devalue the guitar. But who cares.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I've done that to a couple guitars and it was a major disappointment. I sold them. HB's in the middle position sound nothing like they do when they're in the bridge and neck positions. You'd think you'd get more tones with a middle PU, but you really don't, at least not ones you're likely to use. There's a reason why most guitar makers offer HSS and HSH guitars, and almost no one has HHH except Gibson and Epiphone, and they primarily do it for 'historical' reasons. There certainly hasn't been much demand over the last 6 decades, which should tell you something.

If you want additional tones from 2 HB's, you're much better off with an alternative wiring of coil cut, parallel, phase, series, or spin-a-split.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Adding a third pickup

Agree with Blueman.

 

[TheMadGypsyBaron]

Re: Adding a third pickup

There's a reason why most guitar makers offer HSS and HSH guitarst

This is why I'm thinking about the Bluesbucker pickup, as it's modeled after a sort of P90/Single Coil sound which would, at least in my mind, be a good middle pickup. Plus with it looking like a regular humbucker, it wouldn't look out of place either.

If you want additional tones from 2 HB's, you're much better off with an alternative wiring of coil cut, parallel, phase, series, or spin-a-split

Part of the wiring scheme in my mind has the splits, phasing, and series/parallel with a blower and Esquire-esque pre-set tone. Just thinking a third pickup would go even more over the top

 

[blueman335]

Re: Adding a third pickup

This is why I'm thinking about the Bluesbucker pickup, as it's modeled after a sort of P90/Single Coil sound which would, at least in my mind, be a good middle pickup. Plus with it looking like a regular humbucker, it wouldn't look out of place either.

Part of the wiring scheme in my mind has the splits, phasing, and series/parallel with a blower and Esquire-esque pre-set tone. Just thinking a third pickup would go even more over the top

I've had a Bluesbucker, don't get too caught up in the hype. I don't think they sound anything like a P-90. It has two humbucker coils with a ceramic magnet, it's just a modded HB.

Looking out-of-place isn't the biggest concern you have going, it's tone quality and playability. You may not like the sound at all. Middle HB's are difficult for many guitarists to get used to, as there's little space to pick strings, one of the reasons for their perpetual lack of popularity.

My guitars with a middle HB weren't 'over the top', and I used push-pulls to get over 30 sounds from them, most of which I didn't use. If you have anywhere from 2 to 5 good useable sounds from your PU combinations, you're doing great. You can get yourself all worked up over having dozens of sounds, but if most are either similar or kind of lame, and you're tired of holding your right hand out of place so you don't hit the PU covers when you play, it can get old.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Adding a third pickup

It seems as if I'm writing my articles for nothing. Pointless exercise, like pissing against the wind.

I've posted several options over the last decade to make tonal use of that third humbucker slot but nobody seems even 'willing' to try it.

So, Here I go again.

The humbucker in the middle is a terrible option. Even a phat cat kinda sux if you use that together with the rest. What you really want is a humbucker like the jazz BRIDGE cause that pickup has a bright tone with a decent amount of power (a Screaming Demon is fine, too). You'd want symmetrical coils to begin with because of the way I'm going to use it.

Don't wire it as a humbucker but as 2 single coils. That means: green and white to earth by default. Wire red and black to the middle lug of a push pull pot (not both on the same pole of the switch-side of the PP pot, each its own) and in the 'UP' position of the switch (that's the lower lug if I recall correctly) you solder a wire that runs to the input-lug of a volume pot.

For example.

If the coil of the middle humbucker that's closest to the neck is the green/red coil, you solder its wire from the push pull pot to the volume pot of the BRIDGE. (and vice versa for the neck). You want that split single coil to be as far away from the humbucker you're running it with as possible (bridge humbucker with split single coil towards the neck, neck humbucker with split single coil towards the bridge).

Use triple shot rings to control the bridge and neck humbucker or even a new push pull pot to split the humbuckers.

Or, do what I did when I figured this all out: use the left side of one push pull pot to split the bridge humbucker and the right side to engage the middle single coil. that way you have the split-tones instantly.Rinse and repeat for the neck humbucker plus single coil. You may even do this with a 4 pole push push pot (the Fender S1 switch) to split/engage the bridge/neck humbucker plus middle singles all in one go so you only need one move to split everything.

I figured this out because a middle humbucker sounds like crap. It does work extremely well to emulate a quacky in-between tone if you split the humbuckers: all the humbuckers! Don't use higher output pickups, you really want clean sounding pickups: for some reason, the in-between tones come from a cleaner pickup and a fairly bright pickup in the middle set up quite low.

I've said this a billion times, I've written an article about this but no one ever seems so even link to that article. Feels a bit... ungrateful, to be honest. Oh well. Your loss, my gain.

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I wouldn't tear up a Les Paul on a science experiment but that is me. I'm kinda fond of Les Pauls, they are like a beautiful woman to me, you don't go messin with perfection...

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Adding a third pickup

My current HHH has Screamin Demon in the bridge, Lil Screamin Demon in the mid and a Liquifire in the neck–awesome combo! I really dig the 2 and 4 positions with HHH rather than HSH. But that is just a personal thing.

View attachment 67841

Ignore my terrible playing but these are a demo running straight thru Garage Band:

Clean

 

[blueman335]

Re: Adding a third pickup

It seems as if I'm writing my articles for nothing. Pointless exercise, like pissing against the wind.

I've posted several options over the last decade to make tonal use of that third humbucker slot but nobody seems even 'willing' to try it.

So, Here I go again.

The humbucker in the middle is a terrible option. Even a phat cat kinda sux if you use that together with the rest. What you really want is a humbucker like the jazz BRIDGE cause that pickup has a bright tone with a decent amount of power (a Screaming Demon is fine, too). You'd want symmetrical coils to begin with because of the way I'm going to use it.

Don't wire it as a humbucker but as 2 single coils. That means: green and white to earth by default. Wire red and black to the middle lug of a push pull pot (not both on the same pole of the switch-side of the PP pot, each its own) and in the 'UP' position of the switch (that's the lower lug if I recall correctly) you solder a wire that runs to the input-lug of a volume pot.

For example.

If the coil of the middle humbucker that's closest to the neck is the green/red coil, you solder its wire from the push pull pot to the volume pot of the BRIDGE. (and vice versa for the neck). You want that split single coil to be as far away from the humbucker you're running it with as possible (bridge humbucker with split single coil towards the neck, neck humbucker with split single coil towards the bridge).

Use triple shot rings to control the bridge and neck humbucker or even a new push pull pot to split the humbuckers.

Or, do what I did when I figured this all out: use the left side of one push pull pot to split the bridge humbucker and the right side to engage the middle single coil. that way you have the split-tones instantly.Rinse and repeat for the neck humbucker plus single coil. You may even do this with a 4 pole push push pot (the Fender S1 switch) to split/engage the bridge/neck humbucker plus middle singles all in one go so you only need one move to split everything.

I figured this out because a middle humbucker sounds like crap. It does work extremely well to emulate a quacky in-between tone if you split the humbuckers: all the humbuckers! Don't use higher output pickups, you really want clean sounding pickups: for some reason, the in-between tones come from a cleaner pickup and a fairly bright pickup in the middle set up quite low.

I've said this a billion times, I've written an article about this but no one ever seems so even link to that article. Feels a bit... ungrateful, to be honest. Oh well. Your loss, my gain.

I'm guilty of missing some of your articles, but this is an ingenious idea. Don't give up on us.

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Adding a third pickup

My current HHH has Screamin Demon in the bridge, Lil Screamin Demon in the mid and a Liquifire in the neck–awesome combo! I really dig the 2 and 4 positions with HHH rather than HSH. But that is just a personal thing.

View attachment 67841

Ignore my terrible playing but these are a demo running straight thru Garage Band:

Clean

Nice Charvel
That's got the Jake E Lee thing goin on!

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Adding a third pickup

Nice Charvel
That's got the Jake E Lee thing goin on!

Thanks! I love the Jake E Lee look!

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Adding a third pickup

It seems as if I'm writing my articles for nothing. Pointless exercise, like pissing against the wind.

I've posted several options over the last decade to make tonal use of that third humbucker slot but nobody seems even 'willing' to try it.

So, Here I go again.

The humbucker in the middle is a terrible option. Even a phat cat kinda sux if you use that together with the rest. What you really want is a humbucker like the jazz BRIDGE cause that pickup has a bright tone with a decent amount of power (a Screaming Demon is fine, too). You'd want symmetrical coils to begin with because of the way I'm going to use it.

Don't wire it as a humbucker but as 2 single coils. That means: green and white to earth by default. Wire red and black to the middle lug of a push pull pot (not both on the same pole of the switch-side of the PP pot, each its own) and in the 'UP' position of the switch (that's the lower lug if I recall correctly) you solder a wire that runs to the input-lug of a volume pot.

For example.

If the coil of the middle humbucker that's closest to the neck is the green/red coil, you solder its wire from the push pull pot to the volume pot of the BRIDGE. (and vice versa for the neck). You want that split single coil to be as far away from the humbucker you're running it with as possible (bridge humbucker with split single coil towards the neck, neck humbucker with split single coil towards the bridge).

Use triple shot rings to control the bridge and neck humbucker or even a new push pull pot to split the humbuckers.

Or, do what I did when I figured this all out: use the left side of one push pull pot to split the bridge humbucker and the right side to engage the middle single coil. that way you have the split-tones instantly.Rinse and repeat for the neck humbucker plus single coil. You may even do this with a 4 pole push push pot (the Fender S1 switch) to split/engage the bridge/neck humbucker plus middle singles all in one go so you only need one move to split everything.

I figured this out because a middle humbucker sounds like crap. It does work extremely well to emulate a quacky in-between tone if you split the humbuckers: all the humbuckers! Don't use higher output pickups, you really want clean sounding pickups: for some reason, the in-between tones come from a cleaner pickup and a fairly bright pickup in the middle set up quite low.

I've said this a billion times, I've written an article about this but no one ever seems so even link to that article. Feels a bit... ungrateful, to be honest. Oh well. Your loss, my gain.

Only good use I have ever heard for a middle pickup. That sounds like it could make an LP sound much more strat-like.

 

[Liam1963]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I beg to differ, but I really like the sound of my Strat with 3 full humbuckers. Understood it's much more cost-efficient to carve up an MIM Strat then a Les Paul......

 

[blueman335]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I beg to differ, but I really like the sound of my Strat with 3 full humbuckers.

You are one of a rare breed then.

 

[Liam1963]

Re: Adding a third pickup

You are one of a rare breed then.

That's what my wife said, except I think she substituted the word "specimen" for breed......

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I like it!. I use the middle pickup but mostly in combination with another.\

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I like it!. I use the middle pickup but mostly in combination with another.\

I love the combo myself, especially the 2 and 4 positions although it is nice to have the 5 position without any decline in output/power.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Adding a third pickup

I am not really sure the additional magnets would cause an audible difference, and the only bad things I can think of is that 1. It can devalue the guitar, but it is yours, and if you are like me, you own guitars to play not to sell. and 2. It might get in the way of the pick. As far as wiring, Orpheo's way seems like the only way to do it right, and would probably get you some really cool sounds.