adding "Squish" to a tube amp

[Kane17]

I'm trying to get what I want out of my Epiphone Valve Jr.


When I just use on overdrive pedal like my tubulator or sd-1 I get a good strong and solid overdrive sound but using my DS-1 is a little harsh..


Also, cleans sound a little too dry.

This may be odd but I actually preffer the volume turned down. I don't really like the compressed sound when its turned up a lot. I just use my mic->PA for volume. This angers and confuses me as I used to crank my airline tube combo straight into the clean channel and got nice squishy distortion strictly from the power stage heheh

I want a little more of an organic squish to the sound when using distortions. I don't know if thats really possible on this amp.

Also, it has a solid state rectifier ( so I've heard, I really wouldn't know ). How much of an issue is this when trying to get an organic squishy distortion? Any way to simulate a tube rectifier ???


I've still yet to play any live situation with one of my 2 tube amps because my solid state amps available to me still sound better and are more flexible (than the tubes I own that is). I'm hoping to discover better sounds with these. I figure I must be doing something wrong.

Note: I'm dealing with a cheap-o Jenson "special" 12" speaker until I can afford a better one..probably eminence.

Also, I plan on getting a boss bd-2 in the near future and I think that'll help the leads get a little more organic, but aside from that is there any way to warm this up a little?




Also, maybe I could get some help for my combo too. It does not get enough volume (Which is SURPRISING seeing as the 5 watt epiphone can make my ears bleed). Also, it ShOcKs me when I touch anything, which takes away any possibility of me using it live with a microphone on the stage/altar.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

I think it is just the nature of the amp that you are describing. A lot of people dislike the EL84 amps for that reason, they just seem too thin and fuzzy when you crank them up (SOME of them at least I believe this applies too, especially the single EL84, 5 watters). You COULD add some sort of distortion pedal to maybe goose the sound, not sure about the whole tube rectifier thing. I'd say, try the speaker change, emis are the best for the money (I can't help you with which one to get) but that could tighten all your lows and just beef up your sound, especially the mid-range, and that may solve it all together! good luck

 

[kevlar3000]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

The easiest thing would to go Alnico for the speaker. Lotta cool vintage stuff out there cheap.

 

[Kane17]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

Ok, thanks. I was already looking to change that just for the voicing. I thought Maybe I could get the amp to react to picking differently but if thats not possible, it's already pretty good.


So just to clarify, alnico based speakers are generaly warm then? For example, right now When I play it always sounds as if I'm playing extremely hot pickups into the amp, but rolling off my volume knob on guitar doesn't entirely clean it up. Looking for something a little softer.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

Also, it has a solid state rectifier ( so I've heard, I really wouldn't know ). How much of an issue is this when trying to get an organic squishy distortion? Any way to simulate a tube rectifier ???

I've always associated that "squish" with the tube rectifier. No way to simulate that I know of...

 

[Gunny47]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

So just to clarify, alnico based speakers are generaly warm then? For example, right now When I play it always sounds as if I'm playing extremely hot pickups into the amp, but rolling off my volume knob on guitar doesn't entirely clean it up. Looking for something a little softer.

Well, alnico speakers have breakup of their own and they add a ton of character to tone (I LOVE em personally, others don't). The tend to sound richer to me, cleans are more jangly, distortions are smoother, not necessarily warmer - but in some cases yes. A Celestion blue (or type) will sound a lot brighter and british sounding than a Jensen P12Q (or type) from my experience. However, alnico speakers tend to have flubby bass (as seen from many Fender Tweed amps). It is all a trade off as to what you are looking for. Some people (like myself) will sacrifice the tight bass for the woody fat Fender alnico tone when the amp is cranked. Others like the tone to be more agressive and go for a ceramic speaker. So many things contribute to the sound of the amp besides speakers though, so it's always important to consider everything when buying an amp or modding your own amp.

Now, I think you are looking for something totally different when you say the guitar doesn't clean up when the volume is backed down. First of all, its a 5 watt amp that is designed for low headroom and simply distortion. So if you have the amp full on, you are not going to get much clean when you back the volume down. So you have to find that sweet spot in the volume knob (and mic accordingly at gigs) that gives you the crunch you want but be able to back the volume down on the guitar for cleans. I would also 100% recomend the RS superpots kit for whatever guitar you are using. Those pots are simply the best and they will make your guitar sound WAY better when the guitar volume is backed down. check out rsguitarworks.net - they have some cool stuff you can check out.

 

[jeremy]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

i think a p12q would be way brighter than an alnico blue, a p12n would probably be less bright than an alnico blue.

first things i would do are change the 12ax7 in the preamp to a 5751, lower gain and a warmer tone. nos 5751's arent that expensive and sounde better than any of the new ones ive tried. this will lower your preamp gain and make the amp more touch sensitive.

the second thing i would do is change the power tube to a better el84, i usually use jj for me el84's but again nos arent too expensive and you only need one

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

Two things: EL84s distort easily, and in a way that produces an aggressive, gritty midrange. Also, squish(sic) comes from having a class AB power section that draws varying amounts of juice from a tube rectifier that can't quite keep up. A single ended class A amp like this pulls the same power at idle as it does when at full blast, so you'll only get a somewhat stiff distortion from it. You might try something like an Orange Squeezer clone in front of the amp to provide some of that feel.

 

[Kane17]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

gunny, I think i'm poorly describing this again. It doesn't get gritty and distorted...only very compressed and fuzzy when pushed hard...think of using really hot pickups in a solid state amp with no breakup. THAT is the sound I typicaly get from this. Very hard and non-musical until I turn the amp volume to about 2%

I guess what I meant when I talked about it not "cleaning up" when rolling off the volume is that it still remains stiff.



Thanks for all the suggestions guys.


jeremy, I'll probably try changing the preamp tube first since that would probably be the simplest and cheapest way to possibly acheive success in this project. So a 5751 can directly replace a 12ax7?

parameterman: I've found a tangerine squeeze...is that what you are referring to??

 

[jeremy]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

yes a 5751 is a direct replacement for a 12ax7 just with maybe 70% of the gain

 

[kevlar3000]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

You could also lower the value of the filter caps, In don;t know what they are stock. But lowered values are gonna be rounder on both bass and treble.

 

[Kane17]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

You could also lower the value of the filter caps, In don;t know what they are stock. But lowered values are gonna be rounder on both bass and treble.

Are filter caps hard to deal with..ie, do I have to worry about my fingers being vaporized.

Also, how would I go about doing that, what would I look for and what would I change?

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

I've found a tangerine squeeze...is that what you are referring to??

The Orange Squeezer was a compressor box designed by Dan Armstrong in the 60's(I think). It has a nice, subtle squashing sound. I've seen any number of modern day pedal builders who have a upgraded version of the original circuit. The Tangerine Squeeze would be one of them. I can't remember any others off the top of my head except AnalogMan's Juicer.

 

[kevlar3000]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

Are filter caps hard to deal with..ie, do I have to worry about my fingers being vaporized.

Also, how would I go about doing that, what would I look for and what would I change?

Because of very real high voltage risks, I would perhaps consider having a tech do the work, if you do not have any prior experience.... In am amp like that, provided it would be a beneficial tweak, it would likely be a very quick job. Have you searched around for any popular mods on these amps? I know several folks mess with them.

 

[rashayritto]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

I have a jr too. The solid state recto is probably responsible for your lack of "squish". i dunno how you can overcome that....though i think Traynor amps have "tube recto" simulation i think

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

The 5751 is a cool tube because it doesn't react like a preamp tube. It clips hard but yet clean with strong second order harmonics which livens the sound. It acts more like a power amp tube than a pre amp tube IMO.

 

[kjrocks]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

Trying out a compressor might be worth a shot.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

I agree an ALNICO speaker might get you there

but I guess I feel like being controversial...

A Variac run between 105 - 110 can make things squishy as well. I have found that with a lot of amps. With older amps, a variac at 110 is actually IDEAL for the voltage.

 

[Kane17]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

a variac??

I've limited experience with using them..

So I would plug into that instead of the 110/120 wall socket to slightly reduce the voltage?

...and that won't hurt the amp?

 

[baritone]

Re: adding "Squish" to a tube amp

I was looking around for mods for my Valve Jr., and I saw a place that said it's not really practical to add a tube rectifier to a 5 watt class A tube amp. I was thinking a compressor would help in this case also. I usually set the knobs of my compressor to be as unnoticeable as possible, but it can be stretched for a little "breathing" effect.