Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

[Tone Meister]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

Well, since the pickup arrived and was not a trembucker, that means it is off by 500 ohms from the published specs. My math says that is 4.5% which I consider signifiant. Personally I have never owned a SD pickup that was off more than a few ohms.

At any rate, glad this worked out for robo because the 59/Custom really is a great pickup.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

^ But K doesn't equate to tone or output. The pickup will still be wound to the same turn count......thats how pickups are wound after all.

Its usually those with very little experience with the materials and methods of winding that kick up the most fuss about K readings IME. In most cases they can see only K as being the important metric, and if that is out then the pickup must be too. A few other forums I post on have a lot of winders who regularly contribute - and with some incredibly intricate details too. When they get going with the finer points of how they can wind lower K pickups with the same wire that have a stronger output then you start to learn about the value of wider knowledge.

 

[Tone Meister]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

^ But K doesn't equate to tone or output.

Its usually those with very little experience with the materials and methods of winding that kick up the most fuss

No one said anything about comparing Kohm readings to output but you. It was pointed out that SD is a sloppy winder and someone above refuted that and shot down the poster who said so. I just noted that since it isn't a trembucker that it's off by 4.5% or 500 ohms from published specs. That is a significant margin of error unless you know nothing about basic precision.

And I will happily compare my experience with yours any time you'd like to do so. And before you go busting my balls you might want to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

No one said anything about comparing Kohm readings to output but you. It was pointed out that SD is a sloppy winder and someone above refuted that and shot down the poster who said so. I just noted that since it isn't a trembucker that it's off by 4.5% or 500 ohms from published specs. That is a significant margin of error unless you know nothing about basic precision.

And I will happily compare my experience with yours any time you'd like to do so. And before you go busting my balls you might want to work on your reading comprehension.

I'm a bit confused. You're essentially saying that the resistance of a pup (K Ohms) has nothing to do with the output or performance of a pup, but you're having a hissy fit about it being 500 ohms or 4.5% off of spec. and that it is "a significant margin of error".

So who cares...if it doesn't affect anything? And if it really doesn't matter, then SD isn't a "sloppy winder". Because that would imply that he is doing something substandard/subspec.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

Yeah......a slight double standard - or trying to make both sides of the argument work really.

edit - just to talk about some of the things that can make K readings be inaccurate to spec, and the spec to be variable in the regular production.....an education:

The meter used by OP or any end user is not accurate
Meter is accurate but at used at a different nominal temperature to the spec Duncan has.
Spec temp is the same but you've been holding the pickup in your hand for 30 seconds.

Then the things on Duncan's end that make for the % differential that they cannot wind closer to without accepting a warranty return for:
Machine tension
Magnet wire being a shade too thick
Magnet wire being a shade too thin
Ditto above two for the insulation

The last four are things that are accepted within a tolerance, and one of the key aspects of the typical error margin. Nowadays the QC for the hair thin wires are a lot narrower......but still there will be variation within limits. As any winder will be buying HUGE spools of many thousands of ft - and given they cannot know how any given length will vary unless they test it by cutting off a section a testing the ohms/foot - it is silly to expect them to have a zero or minimal tolerance. You always are given the typical error margin by your supplier......plus a guarantee of the typical testing regime they themselves have to ensure a quality product. This forms the basis of your expected final product variation of course.

As an aside, the boutique PAF clone winders go to the trouble of measuring the typical vintage wire for the occurrence of 'nominal to max' and 'nominal to min' variations within the old 42 gauge wire (plus the coating) used in the vintage pickups they take apart, or amongst broken pickups they can salvage. That way they can more accurately spec wire for their clones.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

If Seymour had published that each bobbin should have exactly 5000 turns of wire and one had 4300 and the other had 6500, someone might say he’s a sloppy winder. But that would make Gibson in the 1950’s the sloppiest winder of all, yet they’re one of the grails people chase with big money. If Seymour does anything odd, it’s on purpose and by decision, to create a particular sound.

 

[robo]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

Whoa! This blew up. Chill you guys OP here. I'm no expert but I guess if SD made their mesurements on a really reliable reader in sunny California. And I made my mesurements on a $10 reader in Sweden during freezing winter – maybe that has someting to do with the numbers being off a bit?
On another note; played the pickup at band practice. Plays really well, needs some fine adjustment and "getting used to", but it's a keeper for sure.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

^ Yep, and there's the most important measurement of all. The only one that truly matters.

Glad its a great result for you!!

 

[Tone Meister]

Re: Advice/help on 59/Custom "craiglist" buy

I'm a bit confused. You're essentially saying that the resistance of a pup (K Ohms) has nothing to do with the output or performance of a pup, but you're having a hissy fit about it being 500 ohms or 4.5% off of spec. and that it is "a significant margin of error".

So who cares...if it doesn't affect anything? And if it really doesn't matter, then SD isn't a "sloppy winder". Because that would imply that he is doing something substandard/subspec.

No hissy fit, hence the reading comprehension fail. When the pickup was originally described the only information that was provided was its resistance reading. I merely suggested that it could possibly be a trembucker because of the resistance reading, nothing more than that. Then came the "sloppy winder" comment from another poster followed by an assault on that poster for his comments. So then I simply compared the actual (reported) reading with the published specs and reported the margin of error. See how simple that is?

So, now that you forced me to spoon feed it back to you, it should be easy to see that I'm neither having a hissy fit over the resistance readings nor am I calling Seymour Duncan a sloppy winder. I was just following the original post with relevant comments and subsequent post with another relevant comment. It sounds to me like you have some newfound knowledge that you are dying to share with us but just don't know how to do it in a professional and eloquent manner.