Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

[AlexR]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Its sounding like that wind isn't the one for you then, if you've tried all sorts of mags in there. I mean I'm assuming you've also tried rolling the tone down too, and to a degree this is what you get with a lower value pot.....but all the time.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

You don't need to change the pot values. Just roll your tone pot down. If you have trouble finding a sweet spot because the tone pot is too sensitive to minor changes in rotation, switch to a linear taper tone pot, so you have a looser sweep up near the top end of your pot's rotation. If you don't like what frequencies are getting rolled off, change your cap. Go to a lower value cap to make the filter more specific to the top end of the frequencies (leavs more midrange intact as you roll down). Use a higher value cap to roll off even more midrange (probably not what you want - a more muffled sound).

I have done enough such fine tuning of my guitars, that if your problem was my own, I'd have already ordered a 500K linear taper pot and a selection of caps from 220 pF to .01 uF...and I'd probably end up going with 220 pF or 330 pF. That would give me an very fine (subtle) and very top-end-specific tone control for just that one pickup. Plus, as an added possibility, it would give you a great cocked wah/distorted sound that still had clarity if you ran the pot on 0.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

You don't need to change the pot values. Just roll your tone pot down. If you have trouble finding a sweet spot because the tone pot is too sensitive to minor changes in rotation, switch to a linear taper tone pot, so you have a looser sweep up near the top end of your pot's rotation. If you don't like what frequencies are getting rolled off, change your cap. Go to a lower value cap to make the filter more specific to the top end of the frequencies (leavs more midrange intact as you roll down). Use a higher value cap to roll off even more midrange (probably not what you want - a more muffled sound).

I have done enough such fine tuning of my guitars, that if your problem was my own, I'd have already ordered a 500K linear taper pot and a selection of caps from 220 pF to .01 uF...and I'd probably end up going with 220 pF or 330 pF.

Good post...I have no problem rolling the tone pot down..I basically could fix the issue by not having to roll the pot off so much(Like down to 4) and by not ending up with the muffled tones..I just need to shave some highs away to get what I feel is a closer tonal eq to that neck Jazz pickup..I have an .02 cap on that tone pot..I felt I needed to slightly increase that,so I could get a bit quicker highend rolloff? Like .033 or .047 maybe?

The problem isn't the amp settings,but that I want some of the high end that I feel/hear is too much to be shaved away some..Still wasn't too keen on going with the 250k pot change,but thought about it.

I have everything I need here already at home,just need to get around to it! :laugh2:

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Good post...I have no problem rolling the tone pot down..I basically could fix the issue by not having to roll the pot off so much(Like down to 4) and by not ending up with the muffled tones..I just need to shave some highs away to get what I feel is a closer tonal eq to that neck Jazz pickup..I have an .02 cap on that tone pot..I felt I needed to slightly increase that,so I could get a bit quicker highend rolloff? Like .033 or .047 maybe?

Do you mean that you can get just the tone that you want right now, by running the pot on 4...or that by the time you get the treble down enough, the tone is already too muffled for you?

If the former, you're golden as you are. Run the pot on 4; there's nothing wrong with that.

If the latter, you want to go to a lower value cap, not higher. That will pull out less medrange as you turn the pot down. That will reduce the treble the same, but without making the tone quite as muddy. Don't be afraid to go very low with cap value, e.g. down into the low 100's of pico-Farads.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Its sounding like that wind isn't the one for you then, if you've tried all sorts of mags in there. I mean I'm assuming you've also tried rolling the tone down too, and to a degree this is what you get with a lower value pot.....but all the time.

Just the A2(Which I Normally love) and the UOA5...Thats it.Normally I'm not an A5 guy for my humbuckers in the bridge....I could try the Seth,but I don't feel like pulling it out of my LP.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Do you mean that you can get just the tone that you want right now, by running the pot on 4...or that by the time you get the treble down enough, the tone is already too muffled for you?

I guess I could say yes..I think if that slight tonal rolloff could happen quicker,I might be ok? I'd have to try it.I Like highend,just that in this pickup/guitar,I just feel the pickup is too trebley compared to my other guitars with the same "basic" setup,EQing etc...

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I guess I could say yes..I think if that slight tonal rolloff could happen quicker,I might be ok? I'd have to try it.I Like highend,just that in this pickup/guitar,I just feel the pickup is too trebley compared to my other guitars with the same "basic" setup,EQing etc...

Hmmm...usually people have the opposite problem: the pot is too "top loaded" in terms of sensitivity. With you, it's the opposite: You want it to be more top loaded. Could it be that you already have a linear taper pot in there? If so, going to audio taper would help.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Hmmm...usually people have the opposite problem: the pot is too "top loaded" in terms of sensitivity. With you, it's the opposite: You want it to be more top loaded. Could it be that you already have a linear taper pot in there? If so, going to audio taper would help.

I Only ever use audio taper...I had changed all the pots to CTS 500k..I had a similar issue with a PG+ in the bridge position of a strat.I increased the tone cap value..I got more overall darkness at the bottom of the pot travel,but the tone rolled off the highs fairly quickly on the pot..It's a weird obsessive compulsive thing on my part..LOL

Just was trying to get some ideas before diving back into the 335 style of workings...Not as fun to work on.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

So, you already have audio taper. You can already get the tones you want. You just want them at a different number. And you already know how to fix the problem, based on experience. In that case, I retract my earlier suggestions, and will suggest doing what you did before that worked!

That said, though, remember that you can already get the tone you want by just running what you already have on 4. Seems like the easiest thing to do. If it ain't broke...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

So, you already have audio taper. You can already get the tones you want. You just want them at a different number. And you already know how to fix the problem, based on experience. In that case, I retract my earlier suggestions, and will suggest doing what you did before that worked!

Greatly appreciate your help...I surely don't have all the answers and wanted some opinions,other ideas,etc...I was leaning toward the 250k to 300k pot,but was also looking for some other ideas...I'll mess with some things and report back.I've never had any issues using 500k with humbuckers..It's the guitar and not the pickup!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Greatly appreciate your help...I surely don't have all the answers and wanted some opinions,other ideas,etc...I was leaning toward the 250k yo 300k pot,but was also looking for some other ideas...I'll mess with some things and report back.

Thing is...now that I understand your problem, your initial thought was correct. You could do a little figurin', and get closer to what you want with a tone pot change. For instance, you say you get what you want now, but you don't want to get it when you are on 4. Well, you just figure out what the resistance of your current pot is when it is on 4. Then you replace it with a pot that has that same amount of resistance when it is on, let's say, 7. Off hand, without looking much at the numbers, I'd say a 250K tone pot (not volume pot) might help you get what you want. The drawback would be that if you ever want that 500K treble sound back, you can't get it (though it is only a slight difference).

But in the end, how much tinkering is 3 numbers really worth? That's your call.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I'm not sure how all different guitarists use tone pots, but I like how you can roll it real low with a .047 uF and get a smooth fuzz distortion or a super dark jazz tone. Putting in a .0015 or so uF cap would successfully snip of the piercing highs, but then you'd lose the typical tone knob ability to go really muffled.

I guess I could say yes..I think if that slight tonal rolloff could happen quicker,I might be ok? I'd have to try it.I Like highend,just that in this pickup/guitar,I just feel the pickup is too trebley compared to my other guitars with the same "basic" setup,EQing etc...

I wonder if by quicker you mean take just the top end off before eating up all the mids. Something to understand about cap values and tone knobs that might help, or might not, sorry if you already know this, is that the cap value decides the frequency cut off point of the tone control, and the pot changes the amplitude of frequencies beyond that point, so if you have a .047 uF cap and you turn down the tone knob just a little, it doesn't start out by taking the highest frequencies first, it takes everything beyond that frequency all at once, to varying degrees as you turn the tone knob. So if you just want eliminate that annoying tip top and keep everything else intact, you have to use a cap value that's low, between .0015 and 400 pF. With my veratone type control, I can make Texas Specials sound nice by applying the .0015 uF cap and putting the 500k audio tapper tone control to about half way.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Thing is...now that I understand your problem, your initial thought was correct. You could do a little figurin', and get closer to what you want with a tone pot change. For instance, you say you get what you want now, but you don't want to get it when you are on 4. Well, you just figure out what the resistance of your current pot is when it is on 4. Then you replace it with a pot that has that same amount of resistance when it is on, let's say, 7. Off hand, without looking much at the numbers, I'd say a 250K tone pot (not volume pot) might help you get what you want. The drawback would be that if you ever want that 500K treble sound back, you can't get it (though it is only a slight difference).

But in the end, how much tinkering is 3 numbers really worth? That's your call.

Great post...Thanks forum brother...I Like your idea and thats why I Posted..Wanted other ideas! Funny cause I normally use a .012 or a .015 on my neck humbuckers because there I want a more gradual highend rolloff..I Like to retain the highs with the neck pickup,but I Like my bridge pickups to be warmer(not dark,but not shrill)..You understand me I hope? :13:

Normally the A2 magnet is perfect in my case with a 59B,but it cut alot of my volume away and I just didn't like it..I found the UOA5 that Blueman335 recommended awhile ago to me a nice magnet overall...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I'm not sure how all different guitarists use tone pots, but I like how you can roll it real low with a .047 uF and get a smooth fuzz distortion or a super dark jazz tone. Putting in a .0015 or so uF cap would successfully snip of the piercing highs, but then you'd lose the typical tone knob ability to go really muffled.



I wonder if by quicker you mean take just the top end off before eating up all the mids. Something to understand about cap values and tone knobs that might help, or might not, sorry if you already know this, is that the cap value decides the frequency cut off point of the tone control, and the pot changes the amplitude of frequencies beyond that point, so if you have a .047 uF cap and you turn down the tone knob just a little, it doesn't start out by taking the highest frequencies first, it takes everything beyond that frequency all at once, to varying degrees as you turn the tone knob. So if you just want eliminate that annoying tip top and keep everything else intact, you have to use a cap value that's low, between .0015 and 400 pF. With my veratone type control, I can make Texas Specials sound nice by applying the .0015 uF cap and putting the 500k audio tapper tone control to about half way.

Good post...Did you mean .015 or actually .0015(1500 pf)...I Like and do use .012 or .015 on most of my neck humbuckers..Normally .022 is pretty ideal for all of my bridge positions,both single coil and humbuckers..This guitar is just a bright maple top sucker..As mentioned,it's the guitar,I'm lefty,like the guitar,and it's hard to find certain lefty things,so trying to dial it around a bit.Appreciate all the great info..Gives me alot of things to try,think about!

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

.0015 / 1500 pF, it's the real high treble, like "presence knob" range. Then again I'm dealing with single coils, which have a higher peak than humbuckers.

You can get a box of caps on amazon for cheap and try them all out http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Knows-Ele..._1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1397174686&sr=1-1

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Thing is...now that I understand your problem, your initial thought was correct. You could do a little figurin', and get closer to what you want with a tone pot change. For instance, you say you get what you want now, but you don't want to get it when you are on 4. Well, you just figure out what the resistance of your current pot is when it is on 4. Then you replace it with a pot that has that same amount of resistance when it is on, let's say, 7. Off hand, without looking much at the numbers, I'd say a 250K tone pot (not volume pot) might help you get what you want. The drawback would be that if you ever want that 500K treble sound back, you can't get it (though it is only a slight difference).

But in the end, how much tinkering is 3 numbers really worth? That's your call.

I Like the idea of measuring the tone pot resistance in it's sweet spot.But then I got to wonderin how to retain the pot shaft position,as I'd have to pull the whole assembly out to access the pot within the 335 innards...Once I start pulling knobs off the pots and pulling the assembly out,I'll lose any kind of idea on where the pot was adjusted to? I can't even tape the shaft really because I have to feed it out of the body cavity holes...Hmmmm? LOL

I'd have to experiment with all that stuff hanging outside of the guitar..Right?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

.0015 / 1500 pF, it's the real high treble, like "presence knob" range. Then again I'm dealing with single coils, which have a higher peak than humbuckers.

You can get a box of caps on amazon for cheap and try them all out http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Knows-Ele..._1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1397174686&sr=1-1

I've not with worked those values and I need to re-read through your post again,cause obviously I don't understand...:laugh2:

And yes...Just want less top end but w/out thinning out anything else...The A2 normally does that..Shaves the top and adds a bit of mids and looseness and sweetness..Maybe my A2 magnet is weak or screwed up?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

But in the end, how much tinkering is 3 numbers really worth? That's your call.

Easier to just keep turning the amp/pedal treble controls back....:laugh2: I Mainly play on the bridge pickup anyway!

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

And yes...Just want less top end but w/out thinning out anything else...The A2 normally does that..Shaves the top and adds a bit of mids and looseness and sweetness..Maybe my A2 magnet is weak or screwed up?

I have Ant I and Ant II single coils, and the only difference is supposedly the magnets being A2 versus A5, and the Ant I's definitely have a darker top end, not unlike what you get with a 600 pF cap to ground, but it also has a more limp output, so I understand why you'd not like the A2 bar, and the fact that you have to live with the outcome and can't tweak it to taste.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I have Ant I and Ant II single coils, and the only difference is supposedly the magnets being A2 versus A5, and the Ant I's definitely have a darker top end, not unlike what you get with a 600 pF cap to ground, but it also has a more limp output, so I understand why you'd not like the A2 bar, and the fact that you have to live with the outcome and can't tweak it to taste.

I also use the G&L PTB setup in 2 of my strats...I was looking at the drawing/layout of this system..It uses a 1 meg.pot on the bass side with a .0022 cap across the center and one other side on the tone pot..The treble pot is a 500k and has the .02 across it..You would have to look at the circuit because there are other caps that go over to the volume pot..

I guess I'm intriqued and would like to know what that .0022 cap is doing and why? Because you mention using say a .0015 cap I'm guessing also across the tone pot?

What I don't understand is...Say in a guitar amp..When we put a small pf value cap across the volume control,it retains the highs at lower volume settings..As we dial the control up,the small value cap is less and less in the signal..Maybe you could explain more about this? It sounds pretty neat.