Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I have Ant I and Ant II single coils, and the only difference is supposedly the magnets being A2 versus A5, and the Ant I's definitely have a darker top end, not unlike what you get with a 600 pF cap to ground, but it also has a more limp output, so I understand why you'd not like the A2 bar, and the fact that you have to live with the outcome and can't tweak it to taste.

I also use the Surfers and love em in the neck/middle..In the bridge though,I normally go Twangbanger(A2) ot the SSL5/6 because it's beefier in the mids and lows and not as toppy..Basically what I strive for in all bridge positions..I hate thin,bright,and harsh or shrill(many terms that describe what I dislike)

In one of my brighter strats I have the AP2 in the neck and middle and a Dimarzio humbucker in the bridge..Normally I actually try switching different pickups to try to improve on what I feel or hear as a deficiency in the tone...Lately money has been a bit tight,so rather than shell out money for another pickup,was trying to dial this one in better..I normally like the 59B and the Seth is even better..The 59 normally works with all kinds of magnet changes and is a very versatile pickup.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I also use the G&L PTB setup in 2 of my strats...I was looking at the drawing/layout of this system..It uses a 1 meg.pot on the bass side with a .0022 cap across the center and one other side on the tone pot..The treble pot is a 500k and has the .02 across it..You would have to look at the circuit because there are other caps that go over to the volume pot..

I guess I'm intriqued and would like to know what that .0022 cap is doing and why? Because you mention using say a .0015 cap I'm guessing also across the tone pot?

What I don't understand is...Say in a guitar amp..When we put a small pf value cap across the volume control,it retains the highs at lower volume settings..As we dial the control up,the small value cap is less and less in the signal..Maybe you could explain more about this? It sounds pretty neat.

A cap can work both ways, either as a low pass or high pass filter. If you send your positive signal through a cap, only high frequencies will come out the other side, and that's a "high pass filter", and it's what a "treble bleed mod" (misnomer) on the volume pot does on guitars, and I assume amps as well. If you put the cap between the positive and ground, it will instead "dump" the high frequencies to ground and only low frequencies will remain on the positive side, and it's what a tone knob does, and is called a low pass filter. So when you have a cap value of .0015, it will either let very high treble through, or allow very high treble to bleed out.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

The effect works exactly the same way both times. the highs get filtered through the cap. On the volume pot/treble bleed situation they get passed onto the output so they get 'retained'. In a tone circuit they are in a ground circuit, so they are passed through to ground and 'lost'

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

The effect works exactly the same way both times. the highs get filtered through the cap. On the volume pot/treble bleed situation they get passed onto the output so they get 'retained'. In a tone circuit they are in a ground circuit, so they are passed through to ground and 'lost'

So are you guys saying to replace the .022 cap across the tone pot with a .0015?

 

[Bludave]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

The stock 59 is A5 and I have tryed A2 and didn't like it...The UOA5 is supposed to be kind of the best of both worlds bewtween A2 and A5 and thats what is currently in this pickup...In this guitar,just seems the 59B is just not the right pickup...I had a 57 Classic + in a guitar once but hated those and sold them.Funny how one person's trash is another person's treasure! I'll figure something out.I Much prefer working on LPs,Teles,Strats,My SG etc.then these guitars! :9:

Dave let us know how that 57 Classic does in your axe and thx for posting.

Well an update.....

I installed the 57 classics last night & I can already hear a huge improvement. I didn't finish it up until about 1am this morning, so I haven't really played it through my amps yet, but I can hear the warmth I was lacking. The James Moore pickups I think would be fine in a Les Paul or SG, but in this 335 style guitar they were just too bright. The 57 classis warmed everything up well. Tonight when I get home I will work on getting them balanced a bit better and do a total setup.... But overall I think I got it.....I will post a thread at some point about this guitar. I think my ears tend to gravitate to the warmth of Alnico II's. Its weird. I have a thinline Telecaster that is Mahogany/maple & that has a JazzN & 59B & it sounds killer. I believe both of those Pickups are A5. But this guitar has been a work in progress from the day I got it. It plays beautifully, has a great neck (based on a 59 Les Paul), its got great woods that it was constructed from...... BUT it was just a touch too bright. These pickups should do exactly what I was expecting them to do....

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

So are you guys saying to replace the .022 cap across the tone pot with a .0015?

That would solve your problem yes, but you lost the normal tone control behavior where turning it to zero is ultra muddy, which might or might not matter to you. Please try though, I'm curious what you will think of the change.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

That would solve your problem yes, but you lost the normal tone control behavior where turning it to zero is ultra muddy, which might or might not matter to you. Please try though, I'm curious what you will think of the change.

Ok thanks and will report back..

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

Well an update.....

I installed the 57 classics last night & I can already hear a huge improvement. I didn't finish it up until about 1am this morning, so I haven't really played it through my amps yet, but I can hear the warmth I was lacking. The James Moore pickups I think would be fine in a Les Paul or SG, but in this 335 style guitar they were just too bright. The 57 classis warmed everything up well. Tonight when I get home I will work on getting them balanced a bit better and do a total setup.... But overall I think I got it.....I will post a thread at some point about this guitar. I think my ears tend to gravitate to the warmth of Alnico II's. Its weird. I have a thinline Telecaster that is Mahogany/maple & that has a JazzN & 59B & it sounds killer. I believe both of those Pickups are A5. But this guitar has been a work in progress from the day I got it. It plays beautifully, has a great neck (based on a 59 Les Paul), its got great woods that it was constructed from...... BUT it was just a touch too bright. These pickups should do exactly what I was expecting them to do....

Awesome Dave...Glad it's working out for ya buddy!

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

You don't need to change the pot values. Just roll your tone pot down. If you have trouble finding a sweet spot because the tone pot is too sensitive to minor changes in rotation, switch to a linear taper tone pot, so you have a looser sweep up near the top end of your pot's rotation. If you don't like what frequencies are getting rolled off, change your cap. Go to a lower value cap to make the filter more specific to the top end of the frequencies (leavs more midrange intact as you roll down). Use a higher value cap to roll off even more midrange (probably not what you want - a more muffled sound).

I have done enough such fine tuning of my guitars, that if your problem was my own, I'd have already ordered a 500K linear taper pot and a selection of caps from 220 pF to .01 uF...and I'd probably end up going with 220 pF or 330 pF. That would give me an very fine (subtle) and very top-end-specific tone control for just that one pickup. Plus, as an added possibility, it would give you a great cocked wah/distorted sound that still had clarity if you ran the pot on 0.

I had that struggle with a DiMarzio PAF. I pull out my bucket full of caps and ended with a 120pF in series with the pickup. All the wiring is still the same.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I had that struggle with a DiMarzio PAF. I pull out my bucket full of caps and ended with a 120pF in series with the pickup. All the wiring is still the same.

parallel

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

I had that struggle with a DiMarzio PAF. I pull out my bucket full of caps and ended with a 120pF in series with the pickup. All the wiring is still the same.

In that case, what you did was to install a filter that removes low end. It's like running a G&L bass pot on 0 with a 1200 pF cap instead of a 2200 pF one.

 

[DreX]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

The thread is about taking off high end though, so he must have jumped the pickup with a cap rather than have it in series, which would kill the bass and keep only the treble like you're describing.

I like cap-in-series treble knobs, I've done that to several of my humbucker guitars. It can often clean up the sound better than the volume control abd take out some dirt while leaving more bite than you would have if you rolled back the volume.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Advice/Opinions 59B Still Kinda Bright

The thread is about taking off high end though, so he must have jumped the pickup with a cap rather than have it in series, which would kill the bass and keep only the treble like you're describing.

I like cap-in-series treble knobs, I've done that to several of my humbucker guitars. It can often clean up the sound better than the volume control abd take out some dirt while leaving more bite than you would have if you rolled back the volume.

Haven't touched the guitar yet...Just busy with so many other things currently...