After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

[SJ318]

Hi,
Got a set of Gibson/Kluson tulip head tuners in '98, maybe, for my '68 LPC. They seem to work alright.
The set on my Re-Issue SG from 2000 are horrible. The play is huge, by that I mean very sloppy and hard to tune.
Is this normal for that type of peg?
Also does Gear ratio have a part in this? Lots of top makers have ratios of 12, 14, 18. So the ratio of these SG tuners are not printed as I did a huge search for what to replace them with as the SG is now my #1 non-trem guitar.
A Luthier I know,best in the northwest, Joe Riggio, says he has a set of Gotoh with tulip style heads. Always like the tulip head, as long as they work. Joe is very strong in his faith with Gotoh.
Hope you chime in, there are too many options.
SJB

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Why do you think so many people take off the klusons and put grovers on their les pauls lol

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

You have a funny idea of what constitutes a disaster. Are cloudy days catastrophies?

But I'm with caruna on this one this is exactly why you see so many LPs with grovers

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

18:1 is usually a good ratio the higher the better
And yes different manufacturer

*(Sent from my durned phone!)*

 

[Wattage]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

There was quite a while where those Gibson tuners were quite bad, they have the press in bushing on them most likely.

The newer ones with the threaded bushings are much better, they were Gotoh made and sold thru TonePros. Since Kluson is back they've been disco'd. I haven't tried the new Klusons but I would look into a new set before changing to Grovers or Schallers. Might even find a set of the Gotoh's online somewhere.

Grover tulips are fine but will add weight to the headstock, not something I really like to do to an SG.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Nothing wrong with Gotoh! But yeah, there's a reason you see Grovers and not Klusons on a lot of Les Pauls.... you should ask that luthier friend of yours to cut you a new nut too.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Had Klusons on a Gibson Les Paul–weakest link on that guitar. Had I kept it (wish I had) I would had replaced them with Grover Tuners.

 

[Hecubus]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Disaster? I was expecting to see a split headstock! Glad to be disappointed this time.

 

[thebowl]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

As pointed out above, Grover also makes "tulip" tuners. I have a new set on my 1988 ES-335 that are far superior to the stock Rotomatics that came with it. And I agree that those Tone Pros Klusons are spectacular. Also have those, on my R9. They have been discontinued, but you can still find both the "new" Klusons and the Grover tulips, both of which keep good tune.

For some of us, a nice Gibson needs tulip tuning tips.

 

[JeffB]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

I have two guitars with the recent Tonepros Kluson/Gotohs. They are adequate. I don't find them better or worse than any of the other kluson types I have had on many other Gibsons or gotohs klusons on the MIJ imports.

Not all grovers are created equal either. I have the same meh feeling about most grovers you find on guitars from Epiphone and other asian imports like schecter, BC rich, import Deans. etc. But the grovers on my Gibson 335 and my old Dean USA ML are/were definitely a much better tuner than typical grovers. I suspect they are higher gear ratio versions. So I would splurge for the higher quality version.

Frankly, after messing around with the P3 tuners on my PRS245 when I pick up my Les Pauls or my 335, Kluson/gotoh and Grover alike seem pretty inferior. It's a significant "say an expletive out loud" difference.

 

[dystrust]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

The Gibson Deluxe tuners have a 12:1 ratio, and as you've seen they are horribly inconsistent. The set on my 2007 ES-335 Fatneck are rock-solid, while the set on my 2007 SG Standard are horrible. I have a set of locking gotoh klusons waiting for the SG's next string change.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

When I bent a Kluson on my goldtop, I replaced them with Schaller tulip tuners which work great. I prefer Kluson tulip tuners over heavier Grovers, since the headstock resonates better, plus I'd never drill new holes in any Gibson.

 

[SJ318]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Problem solved, I am pretty sure,
My luthier guy had a set of Gotoh's 15:1 ratio with nice "tulip" head on them, they came with a conversion kit so the new bushing would fit the now empty slots. Gotta sand em just a tad, they are tight, don't want to crack the paint. But they were made specifically for Gibson specs, no worries.
The tulip is much less green than the stk klu/gib tulips. They feel very tight and smooth when I turn them. A world of difference. The old ones feel very sloppy side by side.
Edgecrusher - the term disaster is used often but confined to the subject as to show the level of alarm. My ex-wife would a hair "disaster" once a week. Or my sister would, on thanksgiving, if the bird was not cooking properly, she would declare a "cooking" disaster. Tell me you have never been with a woman, partner, friend who never said "hair disaster" to you on the way to a dinner party? If I had said "nuclear" disaster, then the word becomes a little more serious. I would go on the CNN Disaster Forum.
I remember J. Beck remarking that when playing outside with wind and temperature changes, his tuning would be a bloody disaster. Maybe you were just joking. But your "typing voice" sounds like you think I am an idiot. But I can't read your mind.
My mom said I was a genius, so there you go, what more proof could you possibly need that I am not a genius? My Mom never lied. She's probably in heaven having a "Halo/hair disaster". But it's heaven, so it will just fix itself. Moving on............
Gearjoneser, those Schallers look really nice, have you used them. If so, how are they. Very classy look.
JeffB-so what do you like best out there on the market today, if you had to go 3/3 non locking with tulip heads, or not tulip heads?
Wattage, I agree about the weight and all of you about the tulip looking nice on a LP or SG, those Schallers look the best I've seen.
Kamanda~SD-I got pretty good with cutting nuts by myself, on the road for so long, and with TusQXL, I can't lose. Thanks for the look out though. None of my other guitars have stick/slip problems. I Appreciate everyone's input. Thanks,
SJB

 

[JeffB]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

I suspect if I did an upgrade, I would go with the higher ratio grovers. And I have been thinking about doing it for some time on my 2014 Trad.


If I had to stick with the tulips, I don't know. I would likely see if some small, extreme quality company such as callaham or farber made a version

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Modern Grovers are simply nowhere near as good as the originals they built their reputation on. I know, because I regularly fitted my guitars with Grovers back in the 1970s, when they were quality units. My 1974 Tele Custom which I've owned since 1982/3 still has the 1970s Grovers I installed way back then, and they are still as solid and reliable as the day I fitted them.

When I built my LP-based guitar (build thread in 'The Vault') I opted to use Schaller tuners, because they're about the only remaining traditional tuners that are still any good. But I wanted the metal tulip keys. Schaller do make and sell tulip keys, but not attached to any of their production-model units, I had to buy the keys separately from Thomman in (I think) Germany. When the freight cost was factored in, this virtually doubled the cost of the tuner assemblies, but I was building my own guitar and cost took a second place to achieving what I wanted.

 

[SJ318]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Crusty,
Same experience. My '66 or 68 LPC had metal gold stk tuners, corroded to hell and back, so I did what my idols did, went nickel Grovers. They have worked great for 45 years. Wow, got 'em 1970, hard to believe. But when I got a set for my Les Paul junior-ish guitar they were sloppy a little. not as bad as the gibson/klusons, but not nearly as good as my very old Grovers. Got my Gotoh tulips in and they feel and work like a dream. No more back and forth for 3 minutes to get the damn key to "click" in place. Those also sucked donkey balls, hard, (courtesy of the Lt.). Some holes needed a bunch of sanding, other were too loose and needed some strong wood glue.
JeffB,
I spent some time on the Kluson web page and they had a section called "custom" or "special", I can't remember, but they were the only ones I saw in my 6-7 hour hunt that boasted a 19:1 ratio. Most of their expensive stuff was 18:1. Don't know if that makes them good or not, or even if the Kluson Company itself puts out good tuners by themselves when not hooked up with another company. It might have been the Gotoh co. but I searched so many sites I can't be certain. My memory says Kluson, but not enough to bet money on. You seem to be very versed in tuners. I've never even heard of farber.
SJ

 

[Wattage]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

I just finished replacing a set of the robot tuners with a new set of GIbson Deluxe Klusons, bolt bushing and they're excellent. Black card Gibson parts if you're keeping score.

The Historics have the press in bushing, they're more expensive and they have a bit of slop to them.

They also cost quite a bit more.

 

[GuitarFanatic]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

The Grovers on my Epi Gothic SG hold fairly well, as I say not all guitars are built equal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Aceman]

Re: After market Gibson Kluson disaster.

Kluson = Disaster IMO….HATE THEM.

Schaller is the correct answer if you must.

But there are so many better solutions.