Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

[75lespaul]

I pulled those "now I know they are" atrocious Bugera preamp tubes from the 333 combo and replaced them with new tubes. I had some of the Groove Tube GT12AX7-M tubes sitting in the drawer and slapped dem bad boys into the amp. Wow. First off, all the microphonics are gone, and the amp had some serious microphonics going on. Next, the intense "squealing" feedback has gone away unless I really peg the amp. I can't describe the change in tone, but it is much more pleasing to the ear. More natural, may be the term. What was the most surprising is that at first, I put an old RCA 12AU7 in the PI, and while I know that's a really low distortion tube, the amp sounded the best with that in it. I put the 12AX7 in next, and while it was a bit louder, it fedback more. Gotta get my hands on a 12AT7 next. I think I may have one laying around, but I'm not sure. Placing my order for the JJ 6l6GC-DM power tubes next. I'm pretty juiced up to see how much more they improve the sound of this amp. Knock on wood, it keeps making sound, lol.

On a side note, while the stock Bugera "classic" speakers sound pretty lifeless at the moment, I think I'm going to wait a month or two before replacing them to see if they improve on break in. I've been reading posts from people who did that and they say they go from thin and lifeless, which they are now, to great sounding. If not, I'll just swap'em out.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

Those GT's, I believe, are Mullard Reissues. I didn't like any of the current production tubes that I rolled into a Bugera V22HD over the stock Chinese pre-amp tubes that it came with. I have swapped V1 for a 5751 however. It's all a matter of personal preference and as much as I want to hate those Chinese 12AX7's, I don't. Not compared to other new production tubes that I tried anyway. I have some NOS and UOS vintage tubes that were definitely better, but they are my hi-fi stash. They weren't getting a permanent home in that amp. The Chinese continue to improve upon their tubes. At least some of them. Their tube reputation isn't garbage like it was 10 or 15 years ago. At least now it's mixed.

 

[Wormhelmet]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

Those GT's, I believe, are Mullard Reissues. I didn't like any of the current production tubes that I rolled into a Bugera V22HD over the stock Chinese pre-amp tubes that it came with. I have swapped V1 for a 5751 however. It's all a matter of personal preference and as much as I want to hate those Chinese 12AX7's, I don't. Not compared to other new production tubes that I tried anyway. I have some NOS and UOS vintage tubes that were definitely better, but they are my hi-fi stash. They weren't getting a permanent home in that amp. The Chinese continue to improve upon their tubes. At least some of them. Their tube reputation isn't garbage like it was 10 or 15 years ago. At least now it's mixed.

My two new ValveKing II micro heads (father and son new gear) came with chinese tubes and they are gainy beasts. Still clean channel sounding awesome too. I like them. Previously retubed some amps with GT and Mesa tubes and these stock tubes sound great to me on the new amps. I'll use them until they go and retube on necessity.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

My two new ValveKing II micro heads (father and son new gear) came with chinese tubes and they are gainy beasts. Still clean channel sounding awesome too. I like them. Previously retubed some amps with GT and Mesa tubes and these stock tubes sound great to me on the new amps. I'll use them until they go and retube on necessity.

10 or 12 years ago I probably would have just yanked Chinese tubes on spec. They did produce some decent tubes before now but I think QC was pretty poor. They really had to go through a good testing process and even then I don't think they were as reliable or consistent.

I have a Valveking combo from shortly after they first came out. I think it came with EH preamp tubes and Chinese, Ruby labeled 6l6's. It still has the factory tubes in it.

Here's the thing; 15 years ago you could still buy 1980's NOS JAN Philips 12AX7's for $10 - $15. Nobody really wanted them. Some people liked them for guitar amps but they were considered sh*t for hi-fi. Now, they are selling them for $50 or more and talking about them like they are legendary. I think that we are just lucky that there are manufacturers still producing tubes. The golden age for tubes is over. We needed them before, now we just want them so the demand will never be what it was. I doubt that anyone is going to be putting out the equivalent of the vintage Mullards or Telefunkens. But some of the new tubes sound good, especially in guitar amps. Again, I think we are lucky that they are still being produced and that there is enough competition so that the manufacturers keep trying to improve QC and sound.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I would put the SED/Winged C 6L6s in your amp, if you can find them. I think they are a better choice t6han the JJs in small powerful combos; more durable and less noise and microphonics. I use them in several of my Mesas.

I don't know who made that GT12AX7-M for Groove Tubes, but that was a fantastic tube for V-1 in my Mesa amps. Not to dark, not too trebley, just sweet and liquid tone. I bought several of them, many turned out to be too noisy for V-1, but man, when they were good...fantastic!

I'm not sure if the New Sensor reissue is the same as the GT12AX7-M, but I'm going to give one a try in my Mark V.

Bill

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I would put the SED/Winged C 6L6s in your amp, if you can find them. I think they are a better choice t6han the JJs in small powerful combos; more durable and less noise and microphonics. I use them in several of my Mesas.

I don't know who made that GT12AX7-M for Groove Tubes, but that was a fantastic tube for V-1 in my Mesa amps. Not to dark, not too trebley, just sweet and liquid tone. I bought several of them, many turned out to be too noisy for V-1, but man, when they were good...fantastic!

I'm not sure if the New Sensor reissue is the same as the GT12AX7-M, but I'm going to give one a try in my Mark V.

Bill

I think there were two versions of the tube. The original GT 12AX7M, I think, was a Chinese tube made for GT. They had lots of problems with QC. I think they stopped offering them before introducing them again (different construction). The latest ones I've seen (only in photos) look more like the Russian Mullard Re-issues but I don't know if they actually were/are. The originals were supposed to be a bit lower gain too. At any rate, if the GT's that you liked are the older ones, like mid 2000's, then I think they are a different tube than the latest ones they had/have.

I still see the GT's for sale but I thought they went out of business several years ago. Maybe not.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I think there were two versions of the tube. The original GT 12AX7M, I think, was a Chinese tube made for GT. They had lots of problems with QC. I think they stopped offering them before introducing them again (different construction). The latest ones I've seen (only in photos) look more like the Russian Mullard Re-issues but I don't know if they actually were/are. The originals were supposed to be a bit lower gain too. At any rate, if the GT's that you liked are the older ones, like mid 2000's, then I think they are a different tube than the latest ones they had/have.

I still see the GT's for sale but I thought they went out of business several years ago. Maybe not.

Those stock Bugera tubes were blah and also the noisiest, most microphonic tubes I'd ever heard. Maybe they came from a bad batch? Horrible. Yep, they're the Mullard reissues and the QC issues were Baaaaaaad. Luckily, I got them when GT was still making the tubes, and I bought all mine from authorized dealers, so many a tube was returned. Even some of the replacements were bad, but eventually I got all good tubes. They sound fantastic. I stuck every Bugera tube into the PI, and every single one made the amp noisy. May be one of the reasons I got the amp brand new for $169.

 

[agufish]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

Nothing like it... These Bugera amps get a bad rap but with the proper loving they can sound amazing!

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

Those stock Bugera tubes were blah and also the noisiest, most microphonic tubes I'd ever heard. Maybe they came from a bad batch? Horrible. Yep, they're the Mullard reissues and the QC issues were Baaaaaaad. Luckily, I got them when GT was still making the tubes, and I bought all mine from authorized dealers, so many a tube was returned. Even some of the replacements were bad, but eventually I got all good tubes. They sound fantastic. I stuck every Bugera tube into the PI, and every single one made the amp noisy. May be one of the reasons I got the amp brand new for $169.

I'm not saying that your tubes weren't bad or that you have to like them. Some people like the tone of these Chinese tubes in general, and/or they may prefer them in some amps. Others don't. All I can say is that I prefer them over the other current production tubes that I tried, overall, in the V22 (with a 5751 in V1).

Good that you have some of the GT's that are working out for you. I have some of the long plate Mullard RI's. I need to pick up a couple of the short plates to try.

 

[Securb]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I have to do the preamp tubes on my Fender (6) and my Marshall could use a retube before I run into problems. Not looking forward to dropping the cash.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I pulled those "now I know they are" atrocious Bugera preamp tubes from the 333 combo and replaced them with new tubes. I had some of the Groove Tube GT12AX7-M tubes sitting in the drawer and slapped dem bad boys into the amp. Wow. First off, all the microphonics are gone, and the amp had some serious microphonics going on. Next, the intense "squealing" feedback has gone away unless I really peg the amp. I can't describe the change in tone, but it is much more pleasing to the ear. More natural, may be the term. What was the most surprising is that at first, I put an old RCA 12AU7 in the PI, and while I know that's a really low distortion tube, the amp sounded the best with that in it. I put the 12AX7 in next, and while it was a bit louder, it fedback more. Gotta get my hands on a 12AT7 next. I think I may have one laying around, but I'm not sure. Placing my order for the JJ 6l6GC-DM power tubes next. I'm pretty juiced up to see how much more they improve the sound of this amp. Knock on wood, it keeps making sound, lol.

On a side note, while the stock Bugera "classic" speakers sound pretty lifeless at the moment, I think I'm going to wait a month or two before replacing them to see if they improve on break in. I've been reading posts from people who did that and they say they go from thin and lifeless, which they are now, to great sounding. If not, I'll just swap'em out.

Interestingly enough, I actually left the stock 12AX7 in the PI of my 1960 Infinium. Is your amp an Infinium series? I wonder which tubes it came with.

In mine (IIRC) I've got a Tung-Sol in V1 and a different Chinese tube in V2 (cathode follower). And then JJ 6CA7s in the power section.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

I would put the SED/Winged C 6L6s in your amp, if you can find them.
Bill

Good Lord, they are pricy, lol. I have to settle for the JJs now, but next time I retube, if I'm in better shape financially, I'll try them. I've seen them recommended a ton on this forum since I joined. Thank you Bill.

I'm not saying that your tubes weren't bad or that you have to like them. Some people like the tone of these Chinese tubes in general, and/or they may prefer them in some amps. Others don't. All I can say is that I prefer them over the other current production tubes that I tried, overall, in the V22 (with a 5751 in V1).

Good that you have some of the GT's that are working out for you. I have some of the long plate Mullard RI's. I need to pick up a couple of the short plates to try.

I've actually got a few of the Chinese tubes that sound great. I apologize if I came off as confrontational, I meant to be conversational. These tubes however, were dogs, lol.

I have to do the preamp tubes on my Fender (6) and my Marshall could use a retube before I run into problems. Not looking forward to dropping the cash.

Amen to that, brother. I really wanted to retube my Peavey Windsor and Valveking, but I couldn't justify dropping the cash on them, and now I'm selling them anyway.

Interestingly enough, I actually left the stock 12AX7 in the PI of my 1960 Infinium. Is your amp an Infinium series? I wonder which tubes it came with.

In mine (IIRC) I've got a Tung-Sol in V1 and a different Chinese tube in V2 (cathode follower). And then JJ 6CA7s in the power section.

Mine is the standard 333, which I believe is the ripoff of the Peavey XXX. The production date on the amp is 2011 and the tubes just say "Bugera" on them.

 

[dominus]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

My guess is that was the unit they were switching tubes out for other amps and then let you have it dirt cheap.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Ahhh....aren't new tubes the best???

My guess is that was the unit they were switching tubes out for other amps and then let you have it dirt cheap.

Yes! I would not doubt that for a second.