All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

[JazzSinger]

I have just installed a lil 59/duckbucker/jb (altho' that's not relevant.)

I have wired each pup exactly as in the supplied leaflet, I chose series/off/parallel (on-off-on, 2-pole toggles). All three then go to a 250k pot, then out.

The weird thing is, when all three are off, I still hear sound! Softer than usual, yes, but still surprisingly loud. The wiring is correct, because when I switch each pup on, I get low resistance readings (16k, 9k or 4k I think, depending on which pup).

And when they're all off, I get the 250k of the pot.

And the most amazing thing is, if I bypass the pot entirely, I get open circuit, as one would expect.

But I still hear sound!

What is this? Voodoo?

 

[JaeSwift]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Maybe your amp? I have 3 on/off switches on my charvel (for all 3 pickups), and when all turned off I can still hear the buzzing from my trusty ol' marshall.

 

[JazzSinger]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

No, not buzzing, sound. Music. The guitar itself.

 

[larry_emder]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

I'll guess that you need a new pot then.
And post some clips of your jazz singing!

 

[Ang3lus]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

if you get 250k off the pot, that means it's on 0 right ?
is it wired like hot from mini switch to volume hot and then to jack out ?
you use a stereo jack or mono ?
you need to try and switch between pickups and see if all gives you sound, and see if they are the same sound, if they do, maybe the mini switch hot is connected to jack out and the volume pot is connected to the jack out too

you need to connect themini switch hot to the pickup switch and then to the volume hot and from there to the mono jack +

those are the only wires that should be running
it shoulden't be possible to get any sound like that if the volume is on 0.

something is shorted for sure

if you'd post the wiring you currently have, it would be MUCH easier to solve

 

[Artie]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Strings produce a voltage in the pickup even though they don't touch. The primary of a transformer produces a voltage in the secondary even though they're very well insulated from each other. Your pickup is producing an AC voltage even when its "off". If you have wires lying close to each other in your guitar, especially in parallel, what your seeing is possible, although, the signal should be very weak.

The other thing is, double-check the wiring of your tone cap. It will block the DC voltage that your meter puts out, (giving you an "open"), but will allow the AC signal of the pup through. Thtas what I'd look at the closest.

 

[JazzSinger]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Strings produce a voltage in the pickup even though they don't touch. The primary of a transformer produces a voltage in the secondary even though they're very well insulated from each other. Your pickup is producing an AC voltage even when its "off". If you have wires lying close to each other in your guitar, especially in parallel, what your seeing is possible, although, the signal should be very weak.

I have done some further investigation:

According to the wiring diagram in the leaflet, when the switches are in the "off" position, what in fact you have is a series connection but with the white and red separated.

Since, as you point out, we have a transformer, the signal is probably still getting across by induction between the coils inside the pickup itself. I suspect this is what is happening. The signal is surprisingly strong, too strong to be induction between wires.

The other thing is, double-check the wiring of your tone cap. It will block the DC voltage that your meter puts out, (giving you an "open"), but will allow the AC signal of the pup through. Thtas what I'd look at the closest.

For testing, I have removed the volume connections. There is no tone control. The pickups go to to the series/off/parallel switches, then the hot outs are connected together at the output (mono) jack. And the cold sides all go to the sleeve, which is ground. The behavior is the same.

Probably to turn a pickup off, you need to disconnect at the hot out, not the between-coil connection. (Unfortunately I cannot do that with the switches I have.)

Can an expert confirm my suspicions?

 

[Ang3lus]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

then the hot outs are connected together at the output (mono) jack.

you need only one hot out going to the output jack, the one from the mini switch, since that's where your last crossroads is, if you'd connect another hot out, it will be like switching just the mini switch off, but signal is still going thru to the output jack thru the vol pot.

 

[JazzSinger]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

That's what I mean. The "hot" ends of the 3 mini switches go to the output jack, where they are connected together.

The hot ends of the *pickups* go to the switches only.

All exactly as shown in the leaflet, repeated three times, once for each pup.

 

[BigDaddy]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Some switches especially mini's get ruined from too much heat from the iron.

At least that's what has happened to me. So when you switch it for some reason it doesn't cut the connection. I just did that to a pull switched minipot.

 

[JazzSinger]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Oh, the switches cut allright. As I said; my meter measures open circuit. No coil resistance. They are all open.

 

[BigDaddy]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

Then your getting crosstalk in the guitar some how if I understand your problem correctly.

I had the same problem and abandoned the mini switches I was using.

Maybe your solder on the lugs is too close?????????????? try a little electrical tape between them.

 

[Artie]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

I have done some further investigation:

According to the wiring diagram in the leaflet, when the switches are in the "off" position, what in fact you have is a series connection but with the white and red separated.

Since, as you point out, we have a transformer, the signal is probably still getting across by induction between the coils inside the pickup itself. I suspect this is what is happening. The signal is surprisingly strong, too strong to be induction between wires.

I would say that that's a great analysis. The two coils could definitely be air-coupled. Although it may be a bit of a hassle, you can verify this for sure by connecting the black and green wires of the pickup directly to the output jack, and then leave the red white wires disconnected and see if you get anything out.

 

[LJ King]

Re: All switches off, but still get sound! Voodoo?

I would say that that's a great analysis. The two coils could definitely be air-coupled. Although it may be a bit of a hassle, you can verify this for sure by connecting the black and green wires of the pickup directly to the output jack, and then leave the red white wires disconnected and see if you get anything out.

I'm not sure that would prove the voodoo. You would still have the switch in the circuit.

I've been having problems getting decent mini-switches lately. I've got several on/on double poles that make great in one direction but have to be jiggled to make in the other direction - and all were brand new switches.

About six months ago I received a batch of 12 on/off/on double poles and 3 of them turned out to be mismarked on/on/on types.

I would suspect the switch first.