All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

[koshikas]

alo fellow SDUGFers.

from sometime now I ve been hearing and searching for information on Bill Lawrence pickups, and today i took it all seriously and did some good homework, mostly based on previous threads on similar topics here.

I found that the out of all the countless threads, this to be most hopeful to get general consensus. also the most recent thread, this was also helpful for me to getting to know the pickup range better. as sound samples, I used this page recommended in the first thread for sound comparison. Now i dont think we need any lobbying for BL-USA or B&B Wilde pickups, but i would mostly appreciate if you could stick to B&B pickups as I m certain I need few of those pickup types offered based on ur recommendations.

Though the primary objective is to find 3 B&B pickups for my shredstick, i would like to point out that the very reason i m starting a new thread and not resurrecting an old one is because i couldnt find any thread helping me with my questions in a single thread :bandit:. so do please recommend and help and dont forget throw everythin u know about them except makin quarrels on anything.

so the guitar in question is a a typical MIJ shred stick made in late '80s. It is a Yamaha RGZ-II (basswood bodied, maple neck with rosewood fretboard with locking trem and nut in SSH routing, with A500k volume pot and A250k tone pot). now i m no insane shredder, just that time and time again i need to embrace my guitar geared for high gain. and presently with the stock bridge humbucker which is 8.7k DCR with a ceramic magnet does high gain somewhat ok, but i always feel it is underpowered and lack the punch. the heaviest i plan to go with this is '80s heavy metal (mostly heavy rock) with mellow-most being some form of blues. in the most unlikely event i might down-tune to no more than C standard. so that is about it, i need recommendations by considering these criteria.

from my homework i ve singled out L-500L for the bridge, L-280SM for mid and L-45S for the neck.

 

[dominus]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Go for the L-500XL.

It will have the output you want, and *if* you decide it has too much, you can always easily sell it and get the L-500L. If you get the L-500L and decide you need more output, there isn't as much demand for that one. It'll also retain clarity at lower tunings.

 

[koshikas]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

now comes the different questions i had, when i did the research. I know the best expert to talk on this would be Becky. But i hate to bother her without buying because i will only proceed to acquire these pickups, only if my current mag swap experiment ends in failure;

1) Brown Sound capability

Bill makes clear pickups and he typically does not like the brown sound. He states, and I have replicated this, that one can get the brown sound by adding a capacitor and resistor in parallel to the pickup, which lowers the resonance frrequency. Bill prefers that his pups are clear, and he strongly maintains that using a clear pickup will allow the player to have a greater usable range of tone control on the guitar and the amplifier both.

now i m currently waiting for set of magnets to arrive to play around with the stock humbucker. since it is 8.7DCR i m hoping that i can salvage some sort of a 'brown sound' with replacement magnets for the ceramic humbucker already in it. but i m biasing myself towards L-500L because i think the stock bucker will anyway sound mush when i crank on more gain (it is almost in mush territory with ceramic magnet when i put it through lots of gain). What about the said "a capacitor and resistor in parallel to the pickup" to get the brown sound out of L-500. Is the 'Q-Filter' made to do just that?

2) output levels and treble content

And I m favoring L-500L over L-500XL because I think the XL has way too more top end, and I hate to be harsh sounding when i m already playing high gain. I might want to pile up on gain but i m not aiming for anythin near what Dimebag does. So i think L-500L is really what i need, having lots of output/clarity/dynamic-range without being overbearing. Or am I over-thinking and should consider the XL anyway.

as for the other pickups for i opted for; I m expecting L-45s to be matching humbucker (single-coil sized) in the neck for the L-500, and L-280SM to be a 'P-90ish' mid pickup.

3) pot values

The XL requires at least 500K pots, whereas the other 500s can be used with 250K or 500K pots (all audio taper).

The L with 250K pots is tonally voiced very similarly to the XL with 500K pots, but theres not quite as much punch. And if you employ a Q-Filter, theres not as much bandwidth to operate on, which means that the tonal variation that can be achieved is not as extensive as for the XL."

to me this is confusing. bottom-line, in case if I endup with the L-500L with A500k volume pot and A250k tone pot, am I at any serious disadvantage (tonewise not ouput-wise) as opposed to the same set of pots with an XL.

4) transparency

now this is maybe a lame question. as i said earlier, all this is meant for basswood bodied shred stick. now B&B pickups being said to be very transparent, and basswood being flat and mid-rangey (acoustically, this guitar is well balanced to me), would these pickups make it bland sounding. I think this question should be where, ppl who have tried it in similar bodies get to talk their experience.

5) Q-Filter

WTH is this SOB?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

I have to tell you that the L500s don't play nice with other singles. If you don't care about the vol imbalance then go ahead and get a L500 for the bridge. If you want the vol to match up a bit better don't go hotter than the L500L and even in my strat the L500L with the way i've adjusted it it's just a slight bit louder than the L298m single I have in the middle but it's not a huge difference.

Now if you really want to use the L500XL I suggest you wire up a Q-filter with it.

And if I may ask why mix the 280 and L45?

 

[koshikas]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Go for the L-500XL.

It will have the output you want, and *if* you decide it has too much, you can always easily sell it and get the L-500L. If you get the L-500L and decide you need more output, there isn't as much demand for that one. It'll also retain clarity at lower tunings.

Thanks bro, i ll be keepin an eye on this. I never ruled out the XL anyway.

I have to tell you that the L500s don't play nice with other singles. If you don't care about the vol imbalance then go ahead and get a L500 for the bridge. If you want the vol to match up a bit better don't go hotter than the L500L and even in my strat the L500L with the way i've adjusted it it's just a slight bit louder than the L298m single I have in the middle but it's not a huge difference.

Now if you really want to use the L500XL I suggest you wire up a Q-filter with it.

And if I may ask why mix the 280 and L45?

tell u what I m still clue less how it is goin to balance with each other. i m quiet used to having slightly higher powered bridge pickups in the way i use them, but yes i agree L500L would be closer match.

The guitar is SSH routed, so i need single coil sized neck humbucker, which made me think L45 might be just that. i have no idea output wise whether it will match with L500. why i chose 280, matching single coil sort that would perhaps do the in-between 'quack' sounds

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

now comes the different questions i had, when i did the research. I know the best expert to talk on this would be Becky. But i hate to bother her without buying because i will only proceed to acquire these pickups, only if my current mag swap experiment ends in failure;

1) Brown Sound capability



now i m currently waiting for set of magnets to arrive to play around with the stock humbucker. since it is 8.7DCR i m hoping that i can salvage some sort of a 'brown sound' with replacement magnets for the ceramic humbucker already in it. but i m biasing myself towards L-500L because i think the stock bucker will anyway sound mush when i crank on more gain (it is almost in mush territory with ceramic magnet when i put it through lots of gain). What about the said "a capacitor and resistor in parallel to the pickup" to get the brown sound out of L-500. Is the 'Q-Filter' made to do just that?

2) output levels and treble content

And I m favoring L-500L over L-500XL because I think the XL has way too more top end, and I hate to be harsh sounding when i m already playing high gain. I might want to pile up on gain but i m not aiming for anythin near what Dimebag does. So i think L-500L is really what i need, having lots of output/clarity/dynamic-range without being overbearing. Or am I over-thinking and should consider the XL anyway.

as for the other pickups for i opted for; I m expecting L-45s to be matching humbucker (single-coil sized) in the neck for the L-500, and L-280SM to be a 'P-90ish' mid pickup.

3) pot values



to me this is confusing. bottom-line, in case if I endup with the L-500L with A500k volume pot and A250k tone pot, am I at any serious disadvantage (tonewise not ouput-wise) as opposed to the same set of pots with an XL.

4) transparency

now this is maybe a lame question. as i said earlier, all this is meant for basswood bodied shred stick. now B&B pickups being said to be very transparent, and basswood being flat and mid-rangey (acoustically, this guitar is well balanced to me), would these pickups make it bland sounding. I think this question should be where, ppl who have tried it in similar bodies get to talk their experience.

5) Q-Filter

WTH is this SOB?

1.) If you want the "brown sound" you could get it but you would be better off using another pup for that.

2.) Actually you have it backwards the hotter the model the less highs it will have but mind you all of his pups are not lacking in the highs at all. If you're worried about brightness use 250k pots all around. The lower you go in output the more high end will be retained.

As for the L90 it's not in the same ball park as a lil humbucker. It's designed to give a single coil like sound but a bit smoother in the highs. Also the L90 will be underpowered by the L500. If you want a "p90ish sound" in the middle look at the l290 or l298.

3.) They will work with either value of pot.

4.)IDK you would have to experience for yourself.

5.) It works better with hotter pups like the L500L/XL. It simulates taking winds off of a pickup and making it sound like a lower output pup. Their is also two ways to wire it as either a L-filter or Q-filter. I'm working on a video that will explain it better.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Just FYI, if you are interested in magnet swapping, you would not be able to do that with a Bill Lawrence pup. They are designed to not be taken apart....

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

^Thank god no.....they are designed to get played....not played with
I use a L500L on my Ibanez Radius 540, and have a L-500C in the neck.
Plenty of output!

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

I Would not use an L45 with the l500 series as the L45 is a pretty peculiar pickup, very clear, and fairly low output. While it may be a cosmetic sort of match... It is NOT a tonal match. It is a wonderfully hi-fi sparkly single coil sound that sounds great clean, and has a tendency to sound terrible under gain.

As far as the l500 goes, I would get the xl and a q-filter.

The q-filter will let you get the sounds of a pickup with less windings theoretically. IME it works pretty well and is a very interesting device. It also works best with the xl according to Bill. Very very useful.

I would say that If I were you, I would make sure you were going to buy, and call Becky. She has talked me out of things a couple times. I would make sure to get a q-filter though. Becky knows how to balance the singles and the 500 series though.

 

[koshikas]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Thanks for all ur advices so far.

^Thank god no.....they are designed to get played....not played with
I use a L500L on my Ibanez Radius 540, and have a L-500C in the neck.
Plenty of output!

damn right. just checked out Ibanez Radius 540 http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/540R , and found out it is more or less a guitar with similar specs as the guitar that i m preparing to drop these into. I know that u have no deficiency in the output department. I would love to hear if u can just tell a bit about the tones u manged to get through the L500L in the said guitar. if u have any recorded clips from it, i would love to hear them too. do u have this guitar routed for HSH.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Hi...mine is the HH....
Never thought I would dig one up...but I did
Kinda rare in these parts of the world.
The L-500L is sweet and powerful, have great balanced mids....reacts well to height adjustments.
Anyways here are some clips!



One more.......on all tracks I used my Super Sonic 22
Niels

 

[koshikas]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

^^^ awesome bro, many thanks

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

You're welcome

 

[Shadow78]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Hey,

I hope I can help. I own a set of B&B Wilde L-500's. I've had them for years and I love them. I second everyone else saying you need an XL. Bill's pickups are VERY TRANSPARENT. I play on a Mesa F-50 and that's NOT a bright amp. I had to turn my treble DOWN...With Bill's pickups, he went by Inductance, since he felt that was the best way to describe. The XL has the highest Henries and as such, it's a fatter pickup. Believe me when I say that it's not saying much! His pickups are very transparent all the way up the output and, even then, the XL really isn't a high output pickup in terms of distortion. It's a LOUD pickup, believe me, but it is so dynamic and transparent, that it gives you a huge amount of tone shaping abilities at your amp. It's almost like having an EMG without the batteries. It's really that clear. The L-500L will be even brighter and clearer than the XL. Another thing to keep in mind is these pickups are very sensitive to height adjustment and can be easily tweaked to get closer to the tone you're after. Bill's website is full of information which can give you more insight to his brilliant, albeit progressive designs.

I've spoken to Becky many times and she's always willing to help. Bill taught her well. All the L-500's have an almost acoustic quality to them. I have an XL in the bridge and a R in the neck and my neck position sounds almost like a single coil! Really...They aren't harsh at all, but are very clear. I love them because they can really tame my amp, which is flubby and hot by nature. I can get a huge variety of sounds out of my PRS that I have them in. They do seem to work in most woods. I'd hesitate to put them in a bright guitar, but that may be what some people are looking for. The greatest thing, for me, is that they really take amp adjustments so well and you can get so many sounds out of them. Bill, first and foremost, went for Dynamics, transparency, power and clarity. They really take the voice of the wood they are screwed into.

Also, I also echo others saying they don't really go well with singles. They tend to overpower most pickups other than more L-500's. That's not saying you can't. Dimebag did it with a '59 in the neck a lot of times, but as Duncan guys have said on here, that was a bridge model too. If you wanted to do a hum-sing-sing guitar, definitely talk to Becky. Hell I'd say talk to her anyways. I've seen L-500's in a variety of different guitars. To me, Bill was a genius...I followed him as the designer of all the Lawrence pickups...Wilde's stuff is great and the company is in great hands with Becky. Give them a call. I LOVE my L-500's. You'd be surprised just how versatile these pickups are. They definitely aren't a metal pickup solely. They give you a great amount of control over your amp, which really helps with modern amps being so hot now. Good luck!

 

[Shadow78]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Oh yeah, the Q filter is a type of treble bleed circuit so you can maintain clarity in the high end and mids when the volume is rolled down. But, it's not entirely that simple...According to Wilde it can tame the pickups somewhat too. That's as best as I can describe it after speaking to my tech about it too awhile ago. Again, talk to Becky too!

 

[koshikas]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

I did bit of more research today, and here are more questions :headache:

Actually you have it backwards the hotter the model the less highs it will have but mind you all of his pups are not lacking in the highs at all. If you're worried about brightness use 250k pots all around. The lower you go in output the more high end will be retained.

now i would have completely agreed with you on that thinking/synopsis, however i m led to believe that the BL pickups cannot be thought of in the regular pickup functionality. I m very skeptic from the sound comparisons that i listened today, it seems to me that XL has distinctly more high-end and presence than the relatively under-powered L version. The best set of sound samples i ran into was this.

As for the L90 it's not in the same ball park as a lil humbucker. It's designed to give a single coil like sound but a bit smoother in the highs. Also the L90 will be underpowered by the L500. If you want a "p90ish sound" in the middle look at the l290 or l298.

I Would not use an L45 with the l500 series as the L45 is a pretty peculiar pickup, very clear, and fairly low output. While it may be a cosmetic sort of match... It is NOT a tonal match. It is a wonderfully hi-fi sparkly single coil sound that sounds great clean, and has a tendency to sound terrible under gain.

i m really aiming for a tonal balance as well as relatively balanced output levels. now i m assuming that L-298SM would be better for a least compromise in getting even with L-500 in both the neck and mid positions, and that height adjustments would let me get the output levels under control.

As far as the l500 goes, I would get the xl and a q-filter.

The q-filter will let you get the sounds of a pickup with less windings theoretically. IME it works pretty well and is a very interesting device. It also works best with the xl according to Bill. Very very useful.

It works better with hotter pups like the L500L/XL. It simulates taking winds off of a pickup and making it sound like a lower output pup. Their is also two ways to wire it as either a L-filter or Q-filter. I'm working on a video that will explain it better.

now as you said q-filter is somethin that would virtually make it as if the pickup has less winding which i m also assuming as a output attenuator for the pickup. now what immediately made me think was that this is some sort of quasi-volume knob. now i know that is not logical, so how do u guys compare what the q-filter does with rolling of the tone knob (which is meant to be controlling q-filter when it is engaged) to what the ordinary volume knob does when u turn down. what i saw from L-500 with q-filter demos was that when it is engaged, with the turn of the knob the L-500XL goes from the output high-gain monster to PAFish clean output levels while maintaining the clarity.

i also read elsewhere that the q-filter is most effective with the XL and that with L version its effect is subdued. how far subdued is it with the L?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

Simplicity is always the best route!
I would get a L-500L, and talk to Becky about L-45's or the 298, 280, 290 and so on.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

now i would have completely agreed with you on that thinking/synopsis, however i m led to believe that the BL pickups cannot be thought of in the regular pickup functionality. I m very skeptic from the sound comparisons that i listened today, it seems to me that XL has distinctly more high-end and presence than the relatively under-powered L version. The best set of sound samples i ran into was this.

To me the difference is not drastic between the two.

I have used xl, l, and r of the 500 series. 2,2.8, 4, and 8h of the L90 series. L610s are my favorite though. I have used a few tele bridge models and l45s as well

i m really aiming for a tonal balance as well as relatively balanced output levels. now i m assuming that L-298SM would be better for a least compromise in getting even with L-500 in both the neck and mid positions, and that height adjustments would let me get the output levels under control.

I would say so, but I would recommend talking to Becky on that one. She can steer you correctly.

now as you said q-filter is somethin that would virtually make it as if the pickup has less winding which i m also assuming as a output attenuator for the pickup. now what immediately made me think was that this is some sort of quasi-volume knob. now i know that is not logical, so how do u guys compare what the q-filter does with rolling of the tone knob (which is meant to be controlling q-filter when it is engaged) to what the ordinary volume knob does when u turn down. what i saw from L-500 with q-filter demos was that when it is engaged, with the turn of the knob the L-500XL goes from the output high-gain monster to PAFish clean output levels while maintaining the clarity.

i also read elsewhere that the q-filter is most effective with the XL and that with L version its effect is subdued. how far subdued is it with the L?

The q-filter is truly odd. It is in no way akin to a volume knob. It keeps your output and is an inductor that is wired in with the pickups. Hotter pickups sound different than lower output, even if you say, had a clean boost set to have equal output. Functionally, the q-filter, essentially could be thought of as making your pickup sound like there were less winds on the coil without killing your output. I have used it with the xl and it is very interesting. But it works better with higher winds. I think it would work fine with the L, but again, I would call Becky up and ask. functionally, to me it changes the eq of the pickup in very cool ways, but in a far more complex fashion than a tone knob. I'd say more like using a parametric eq on your guitar. The output does go down some when rolled way down, but not anything like a volume knob.

Since it functionally sounds like it is taking winds off, I would get an xl and use my q-filter to make it sound like the L as well. It functionally, theoretically extends the territory your pickups cover.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

They make a L298 for all three positions. For me IMO I think they match very well tonally. Volume wise you can set it for a drastic effect like your stepping on a boost pedal when switching to the L500L but I've set both to be pretty close volume wise but the L500L is just a touch louder and also has more highs so it has more perceived loudness as well.

As for the XL being brighter than the L your hearing the extreme output.

As for the effect of the Q-filter on the L500L to me I notice it very much and don't find it to be subtle. If I were to play for someone who was blind folded and play something with the Q-filter on 10 then play something with it on 0 you would of thought I switched guitars. I love what it does for the L298m single it gives it a vintage vibe which is great for when I need it but also when you have it on 0 it does take off a bit of Vol.

The difference between the Q filter and a standard tone knob is the standard tone knob rolls of highs while the Q-filter changes the whole EQ.

But as has been said Call or Email Becky or Shannon about your questions if your still not sure.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: All ur know-how on Bill Lawrence Pickups for a guitar please!

To me the difference is not drastic between the two.

I have used xl, l, and r of the 500 series. 2,2.8, 4, and 8h of the L90 series. L610s are my favorite though. I have used a few tele bridge models and l45s as well

How did you like the 2.8h L90? How did it sound and feel compared to the L500l? I haven't been able to install mine yet I need to route out the neck cavity.