Allen poles?
- Thread starter Dirtyking
- Start date
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Allen poles?
The fact that he head of the screw has an allen cut into it vs. a flathead slot can't possibly do anything audible to the magnetic field IMO. But if your screw poles are made of a different alloy, that can make a difference. I don't know all the particulars about Dimarzio, Duncan FS/Screamin Demon, or other allen poles, but I do know that Duncan's allen poles are shorter, and that changes the magnetic field in and of itself. So there are probably lots of reasons certain manufacturers use certain poles.
The fact that he head of the screw has an allen cut into it vs. a flathead slot can't possibly do anything audible to the magnetic field IMO. But if your screw poles are made of a different alloy, that can make a difference. I don't know all the particulars about Dimarzio, Duncan FS/Screamin Demon, or other allen poles, but I do know that Duncan's allen poles are shorter, and that changes the magnetic field in and of itself. So there are probably lots of reasons certain manufacturers use certain poles.
sufferinrewind
New member
Re: Allen poles?
The allen poles are supposed to make the pickup sound more aggressive. Or, that's what some people have been lead to believe. I don't know what the point is behind using allen poles. DiMarzio uses them a lot on their higher output pickups, and Duncan uses them on the Screamin' Demon and the Full Shred. Maybe they're used to help in tightening up the sound even further and helping the pickup maintain definition? That seems logical. But, I don't really know.
The allen poles are supposed to make the pickup sound more aggressive. Or, that's what some people have been lead to believe. I don't know what the point is behind using allen poles. DiMarzio uses them a lot on their higher output pickups, and Duncan uses them on the Screamin' Demon and the Full Shred. Maybe they're used to help in tightening up the sound even further and helping the pickup maintain definition? That seems logical. But, I don't really know.
slash857
New member
Re: Allen poles?
dimarzios use of allen poles is varied, not just for higher output models. the humbucker from hell uses allen poles, it is like 5.8k or something really low. the tone zone uses normal flatheads i believe, and its like 16.7k or something. im not sure the real reason for using them. im almost thinking its cosmetic.
dimarzios use of allen poles is varied, not just for higher output models. the humbucker from hell uses allen poles, it is like 5.8k or something really low. the tone zone uses normal flatheads i believe, and its like 16.7k or something. im not sure the real reason for using them. im almost thinking its cosmetic.
krankguitarist
Krankitupologist
Re: Allen poles?
I'm not sure exactly how its done, but allen-heads definately do tend to affect a pickup in a bright way. I tried swappin out one of the rows of allen heads in my full shred for some flatheads, and that tamed the highs a bit and brought a lot of emphasis to the lows.
Ended up puttin it back to stock form though, cause I liked the way it sounded w/ all allen heads more.
I'm not sure exactly how its done, but allen-heads definately do tend to affect a pickup in a bright way. I tried swappin out one of the rows of allen heads in my full shred for some flatheads, and that tamed the highs a bit and brought a lot of emphasis to the lows.
Ended up puttin it back to stock form though, cause I liked the way it sounded w/ all allen heads more.
sufferinrewind
New member
Re: Allen poles?
Yes, I know. The PAF Pro, PAF Joe, Fred, Mo' Joe, Breed neck, and Evolution neck models have those, too. Those are medium output, between 8k and 12k. I said they used them a lot in their hight output pups, not always (though, the only high output DiMarzios that DON'T have them are the TZ, which has one row of normal adjustable poles and the steel slugs, and the X2N, which has dual blades). Those allen poles are a bit different from the ones Duncan uses on the Full Shred, I believe. If that has any effect on the tone, I'm not certain. I just think that they're used to aid the pickup in maintaining definition, and to ensure that it doesn't become mud heavy. Look at the HFH, for example. It's got those allen poles, and it's a very clean, clear, defined pickup, from what I've heard (haven't tried it, doesn't seem to be my thing). If it is the use of those allen poles that gives it that definition and clarity, just imagine what they'd do in a high output pickup. I don't really know if this is the case, it's just an educated guess.
The PAF Pro (and all of it's brothers, the Fred, PAF Joe, Mo' Joe, and the Breed) as well as the Evolution were made to maintain clarity and definition through heavy processing. Notice that all of those pickups have allen poles. That's why I said what I said about them being used to maintain definition and eliminating the mud factor by keeping things tight. I don't make the pickups, so I'm not exactly sure of the purpose of using allen poles, but that *seems* to be the best way to explain their use. It could be cosmetic, but I'd rather adjustable poles if that's the case. More options there. I think the use of the adjustable pole height to suit one's style is crucial. Plus, I like being able to put on a cover if I want one. Speaking of the Demon sounding "shrill," a cover might help to warm it up.
slash857 said:
Yes, I know. The PAF Pro, PAF Joe, Fred, Mo' Joe, Breed neck, and Evolution neck models have those, too. Those are medium output, between 8k and 12k. I said they used them a lot in their hight output pups, not always (though, the only high output DiMarzios that DON'T have them are the TZ, which has one row of normal adjustable poles and the steel slugs, and the X2N, which has dual blades). Those allen poles are a bit different from the ones Duncan uses on the Full Shred, I believe. If that has any effect on the tone, I'm not certain. I just think that they're used to aid the pickup in maintaining definition, and to ensure that it doesn't become mud heavy. Look at the HFH, for example. It's got those allen poles, and it's a very clean, clear, defined pickup, from what I've heard (haven't tried it, doesn't seem to be my thing). If it is the use of those allen poles that gives it that definition and clarity, just imagine what they'd do in a high output pickup. I don't really know if this is the case, it's just an educated guess.
The PAF Pro (and all of it's brothers, the Fred, PAF Joe, Mo' Joe, and the Breed) as well as the Evolution were made to maintain clarity and definition through heavy processing. Notice that all of those pickups have allen poles. That's why I said what I said about them being used to maintain definition and eliminating the mud factor by keeping things tight. I don't make the pickups, so I'm not exactly sure of the purpose of using allen poles, but that *seems* to be the best way to explain their use. It could be cosmetic, but I'd rather adjustable poles if that's the case. More options there. I think the use of the adjustable pole height to suit one's style is crucial. Plus, I like being able to put on a cover if I want one. Speaking of the Demon sounding "shrill," a cover might help to warm it up.
Last edited:
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Allen poles?
i think it has more to do with the length of the screw than the head shape. a typical flat head fillister is 3/4" long and a typical hex head is 5/8" long. i can't see how the head shape would change the sound since the diameter of the heads is the same just one has a slot and the other the hex shape. thus why if you cut the screws shorter on a typical slotted fillister hum it will sound a slight bit tighter and brighter.
i could be wrong (it did happen once before LOL) but that does make more sence to me than head shape causing the sound change.
-Mike
i think it has more to do with the length of the screw than the head shape. a typical flat head fillister is 3/4" long and a typical hex head is 5/8" long. i can't see how the head shape would change the sound since the diameter of the heads is the same just one has a slot and the other the hex shape. thus why if you cut the screws shorter on a typical slotted fillister hum it will sound a slight bit tighter and brighter.
i could be wrong (it did happen once before LOL) but that does make more sence to me than head shape causing the sound change.
-Mike
sufferinrewind
New member
Re: Allen poles?
I don't think anyone is really wrong or right here. We're all just going by what we've heard. If we had the money and really wanted to, we could buy all kinds of different pickups with all kinds of poles to figure out what exactly makes this type different from that type. But, we don't, either because we don't have the money, or because we don't have the patience to deal with something that meticulous. The deal with the allen poles giving the pickups more high end definition could be true in DiMarzio's case. They have a patent on using relatively even coil windings but using two different gauges, say 42 gauge for the inside coil, 43 for the outside coil. I believe this could be what causes huge emphasis in the lows and mids in the pickups that they make in which this process is applied. I could be wrong, as I've said. But, if that's the case, and also if those allen poles do help keep the high end defined, then it'd make sense to use the allen poles to balance it out.
XSSIVE said:
I don't think anyone is really wrong or right here. We're all just going by what we've heard. If we had the money and really wanted to, we could buy all kinds of different pickups with all kinds of poles to figure out what exactly makes this type different from that type. But, we don't, either because we don't have the money, or because we don't have the patience to deal with something that meticulous. The deal with the allen poles giving the pickups more high end definition could be true in DiMarzio's case. They have a patent on using relatively even coil windings but using two different gauges, say 42 gauge for the inside coil, 43 for the outside coil. I believe this could be what causes huge emphasis in the lows and mids in the pickups that they make in which this process is applied. I could be wrong, as I've said. But, if that's the case, and also if those allen poles do help keep the high end defined, then it'd make sense to use the allen poles to balance it out.
Dirtyking
New member
Re: Allen poles?
I remember reading somewhere the allen poles gave the Demon more presence. I'm just trying to verify this.
I have an old Gibson 490 that i may use the screws from for the Demon. I tune to C and want to keep definition, But need fuller tone with this pup.
Did it fatten up the tone any?big_black said:
I remember reading somewhere the allen poles gave the Demon more presence. I'm just trying to verify this.
I have an old Gibson 490 that i may use the screws from for the Demon. I tune to C and want to keep definition, But need fuller tone with this pup.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Allen poles?
Exactly, but there's a little more to it. Don't confuse the Evo/Supers with the others. They (as well as some other Dimarzios) use a full width allen pole. The whole thing is threaded and it's fat all the way down. They also do NOT protrude from the baseplate at all. So there's no pole below the coil. So those will sound more like slug coils. They are longer than slugs, though, and those pups usually have taller magnets under there. The other allen poles are indeed various lengths. The Duncan Full Shred is much shorter than most screw poles. So replacing the FS with screw poles probably mellowed it out due to the screw length, NOT the head. I haven't had a Demon around recently, I'm not sure if the screws are longer than the allen poles. But if they are, that's probably the main benefit. They could have done two flathed rows, but I think visually they were taking a shot at Dimarzio from a marketing perspective. Kind of like a "half Dimarzio half Duncan" look. Dimarzio was getting real big with the shredder crowd right at that time.
The head is basically irrelevant, but if there is any difference, it would be due to the hole in the middle of the pole making sort of a donut shaped magnetic field directly under each string. Which is preposterous considering the manner in which magnetic fields dissipate.
XSSIVE said:
Exactly, but there's a little more to it. Don't confuse the Evo/Supers with the others. They (as well as some other Dimarzios) use a full width allen pole. The whole thing is threaded and it's fat all the way down. They also do NOT protrude from the baseplate at all. So there's no pole below the coil. So those will sound more like slug coils. They are longer than slugs, though, and those pups usually have taller magnets under there. The other allen poles are indeed various lengths. The Duncan Full Shred is much shorter than most screw poles. So replacing the FS with screw poles probably mellowed it out due to the screw length, NOT the head. I haven't had a Demon around recently, I'm not sure if the screws are longer than the allen poles. But if they are, that's probably the main benefit. They could have done two flathed rows, but I think visually they were taking a shot at Dimarzio from a marketing perspective. Kind of like a "half Dimarzio half Duncan" look. Dimarzio was getting real big with the shredder crowd right at that time.
The head is basically irrelevant, but if there is any difference, it would be due to the hole in the middle of the pole making sort of a donut shaped magnetic field directly under each string. Which is preposterous considering the manner in which magnetic fields dissipate.
