Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
- Thread starter esandes
- Start date
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
I'd be interested to know this if someone has used them in the same guitar. I've only used them in (vastly) different guitars. I love the Alnico II Pro, though- it is my favorite clean humbucker next to the Seth Lovers.
I'd be interested to know this if someone has used them in the same guitar. I've only used them in (vastly) different guitars. I love the Alnico II Pro, though- it is my favorite clean humbucker next to the Seth Lovers.
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
The PG have uneven winds for each coil, apparently.
That gives it the bite, the airy sound like the brobucker. The Gibson Burstbuckers are also uneven wound.
I doubt the Slash are uneven wound. The 78 would likely be uneven wound.
The PG have uneven winds for each coil, apparently.
That gives it the bite, the airy sound like the brobucker. The Gibson Burstbuckers are also uneven wound.
I doubt the Slash are uneven wound. The 78 would likely be uneven wound.
darthphineas
New member
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
I have some readings somewhere on a PG, but can't find them. :?:
my 78 Model humbuckers have very symmetrical winds with less than 0.2% variance,
my Frankenst.... um, er... my IM1 is within 3%. Slash is less than that.
Duncan sticks pretty close to keeping symmetrical winds, outside of the 59/C Hybrid. the only oddity I've found is my old nylon bobbin double cream The JB Model that has about a 17% variance between coils.
I have some readings somewhere on a PG, but can't find them. :?:
my 78 Model humbuckers have very symmetrical winds with less than 0.2% variance,
my Frankenst.... um, er... my IM1 is within 3%. Slash is less than that.
Duncan sticks pretty close to keeping symmetrical winds, outside of the 59/C Hybrid. the only oddity I've found is my old nylon bobbin double cream The JB Model that has about a 17% variance between coils.
Kevin Harvey
Administrator
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
The Pearly Gates, 78 Model, and Alnico II Pro Humbuckers do all have symmetrical coils. The three models do use varying gauges of copper wire and have differing wind counts, however, which is what defines their differences in this case as they are all use fully-gaused Alnico II magnets. The Alnico II Pro has the most classic PAF voicing of the three models in my opinion, and has that classic scooped mid-range, bell-like high-end, and full low-end and lower mid-range. Out of the three models listed above, I feel that the Alnico II Pros compress most naturally, and, thus, have a lot of natural sustain. They sound great in high-gain situations and the bridge position humbucker really sings. The Pearly Gates has a much more controlled low-end, and sizzly high-end by comparison. It is also a bit more open sounding, and cleans up with a little bit more ease in my opinion. I would also say that this pickup has a bit more clarity and brilliance in the high-end compared to the Alnico II Pros. The 78 Model is a totally unique pickup. Despite being the hottest of the three models, I would say that this pickup is the most open-sounding and harmonic-rich. It has a lot of brilliance in the high-end, but remains pleasant to the ear through relatively all rigs and doesn't get overly shrill. This pickup sounds amazing in higher gain situations as well, and retains an astounding amount of clarity, even with the "Treble" dialed way back on your rig, or "Tone" knob tapered off on a drive pedal. All three humbuckers are great choices!
The Pearly Gates, 78 Model, and Alnico II Pro Humbuckers do all have symmetrical coils. The three models do use varying gauges of copper wire and have differing wind counts, however, which is what defines their differences in this case as they are all use fully-gaused Alnico II magnets. The Alnico II Pro has the most classic PAF voicing of the three models in my opinion, and has that classic scooped mid-range, bell-like high-end, and full low-end and lower mid-range. Out of the three models listed above, I feel that the Alnico II Pros compress most naturally, and, thus, have a lot of natural sustain. They sound great in high-gain situations and the bridge position humbucker really sings. The Pearly Gates has a much more controlled low-end, and sizzly high-end by comparison. It is also a bit more open sounding, and cleans up with a little bit more ease in my opinion. I would also say that this pickup has a bit more clarity and brilliance in the high-end compared to the Alnico II Pros. The 78 Model is a totally unique pickup. Despite being the hottest of the three models, I would say that this pickup is the most open-sounding and harmonic-rich. It has a lot of brilliance in the high-end, but remains pleasant to the ear through relatively all rigs and doesn't get overly shrill. This pickup sounds amazing in higher gain situations as well, and retains an astounding amount of clarity, even with the "Treble" dialed way back on your rig, or "Tone" knob tapered off on a drive pedal. All three humbuckers are great choices!
LtKojak
New member
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
What do you mean with "varying gauges"? You mean the insulation thickness used in each model?
I'm all ears!
Yours very truly,
Sorry Kevin, but I think all three aforementioned models all use AWG#42 wire, Pain Enamel in the case of the the PG and '78, and Poly in the case of the APH-1.
What do you mean with "varying gauges"? You mean the insulation thickness used in each model?
I'm all ears!
Yours very truly,
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
Hey Kevin! glad to see you jumping right into the deep end of the pool. Ok first thing, always say that they use different types of wire. The veterans around here know the ~7-9k humbuckers are 42AWG, but the type of insulation, the insulation thickness, min/nom vs nom/max, and of course the wind details have generally been considered trade secrets.
But what you can see is that the A2Pro has brighter copper colored wire, which means it's poly. The 78 and PG have the brown Plain Enamel wire, which a PAF uses. So when you say the A2Pro has the most classic PAF voicing, well, the forum nerds might point out that of the three mentioned, it's the only one not made using PAF wire.
Exactly. If one pickup uses min/nom and the other uses nom/max, we wouldn't say they're different gauges, just different tolerances or different types...and now I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear about what you may or may not have noticed!
Hey Kevin! glad to see you jumping right into the deep end of the pool. Ok first thing, always say that they use different types of wire. The veterans around here know the ~7-9k humbuckers are 42AWG, but the type of insulation, the insulation thickness, min/nom vs nom/max, and of course the wind details have generally been considered trade secrets.
But what you can see is that the A2Pro has brighter copper colored wire, which means it's poly. The 78 and PG have the brown Plain Enamel wire, which a PAF uses. So when you say the A2Pro has the most classic PAF voicing, well, the forum nerds might point out that of the three mentioned, it's the only one not made using PAF wire.
Exactly. If one pickup uses min/nom and the other uses nom/max, we wouldn't say they're different gauges, just different tolerances or different types...and now I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear about what you may or may not have noticed!
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
Just to throw it out there:
The Slash uses a polished A2 magnet.
The PG also uses a polished A2 magnet - but the Custom Shop PG uses a roughcast A2 magnet.
I don't have a 78 to look at but being a custom shop pickup I would be surprised if it used a polished A2 magnet since most of the custom shop humbuckers I own do use roughcast.
And using a roughcast vs. a polished magnet does give a different sound to the very same pickup and a different feeling playing experience.
In other words, I feel different when I play the same pickup with a polished magnet compared to how I feel with a roughcast magnet in the same pickup.
Just to throw it out there:
The Slash uses a polished A2 magnet.
The PG also uses a polished A2 magnet - but the Custom Shop PG uses a roughcast A2 magnet.
I don't have a 78 to look at but being a custom shop pickup I would be surprised if it used a polished A2 magnet since most of the custom shop humbuckers I own do use roughcast.
And using a roughcast vs. a polished magnet does give a different sound to the very same pickup and a different feeling playing experience.
In other words, I feel different when I play the same pickup with a polished magnet compared to how I feel with a roughcast magnet in the same pickup.
Last edited:
darthphineas
New member
LtKojak
New member
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
Happy New year everyone!
Yours very truly,
Yep, Frank, agreed. He just doesn't know yet how DEEP this end really is... closer to abyssal deep, if you ask me.
NO!!!! You told him!!!!
Is somebody calling my name here...?
Count me in as well. From all the Duncan p'ups sold in my neck of woods, the PG's been one of the few I haven't yet had the opportunity to dissect, so I'm more than interested in hear what Jeremy has to say about'em.
Happy New year everyone!
Yours very truly,
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
i think all my custom shop pups have polished magnets in them so id assume they choose the best magnet for the job, but i do hear a difference too. for a5 bridge buckers i do prefer roughcast 90% of the time
ive had this pup for years, its lived in a handful of guitars and i love it. even ran into billy gibbons in the nashville airport with a guitar loaded with these on my shoulder. i took it out cause i got a double cream antiquity to put in there, the ant has a uoa5 in there but its going back to a2 next string change.
this is what i found that surprised me, the copper around the coil. ive seen this on other pups but never a paf style pup. are all pgb's like this? just cause its a trembucker? i dont believe the pgn has the same copper wrap as far as i can tell but its still in the guitar.
i think all my custom shop pups have polished magnets in them so id assume they choose the best magnet for the job, but i do hear a difference too. for a5 bridge buckers i do prefer roughcast 90% of the time
ive had this pup for years, its lived in a handful of guitars and i love it. even ran into billy gibbons in the nashville airport with a guitar loaded with these on my shoulder. i took it out cause i got a double cream antiquity to put in there, the ant has a uoa5 in there but its going back to a2 next string change.
this is what i found that surprised me, the copper around the coil. ive seen this on other pups but never a paf style pup. are all pgb's like this? just cause its a trembucker? i dont believe the pgn has the same copper wrap as far as i can tell but its still in the guitar.
LtKojak
New member
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
HTH,
You answered your own question: the copper shielding is a standard feature in Trembuckers.
HTH,
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
Ahhhh YES. It's a Trembucker thing. There are many models where the TB (and 7-string) have the copper tape wrap. Personally I don't prefer it. And I'm not sure I EVER got a straight answer out of engineering about why they started doing it. There are a few theories/justifications:
1. The assumption that Trem-spaced players might be more prone to high gain, (along with whammy abuse) as these Trembucker versions were released while shred was not a dirty word. The copper shield would cut noise down.
2. The copper shield will promote eddy currents, softening the very high frequencies, something that was either not considered at alll, or was considered as a means of warming the 2-knife edge trem guitars.
You are correct the neck model should not have the copper tape.
There are a few exceptions, I believe the Screamin Demon has copper tape on both the standard spaced version and the Trembucker. It could be that George preferred the sound/noise of wrapped coils, so then of course the TB would get the wrap as well. I think the PATB neck model has the wrap, as do all three PATB bridge models. I found a Trembucker Seth Lover that didn't have the copper, which makes sense. Obviously a Shop Floor Custom, not a butyrate bobbin, plastic spacer, 4c...
Here's what I REALLY want to know. Like OCD bad.
Have you ever had the magnet out? I had a TBPG from that era, and I always felt something was a little off about it. Throughout the 90/00's I even told a couple people that it sounded like it had an Alnico V in it. After I started at Duncan, I brought it in, and had a big reveal, and sure enough, it was an Alnico V magnet inside! It's still undetermined how it happened, whether it was a mistake, a one-off...but it did not appear to be a magnet swap. It was made that way. I've always wanted to see if there are others in the wild made that way. Can you look to see if the magnet has a blue marker line on it or a black marker line?
Ahhhh YES. It's a Trembucker thing. There are many models where the TB (and 7-string) have the copper tape wrap. Personally I don't prefer it. And I'm not sure I EVER got a straight answer out of engineering about why they started doing it. There are a few theories/justifications:
1. The assumption that Trem-spaced players might be more prone to high gain, (along with whammy abuse) as these Trembucker versions were released while shred was not a dirty word. The copper shield would cut noise down.
2. The copper shield will promote eddy currents, softening the very high frequencies, something that was either not considered at alll, or was considered as a means of warming the 2-knife edge trem guitars.
You are correct the neck model should not have the copper tape.
There are a few exceptions, I believe the Screamin Demon has copper tape on both the standard spaced version and the Trembucker. It could be that George preferred the sound/noise of wrapped coils, so then of course the TB would get the wrap as well. I think the PATB neck model has the wrap, as do all three PATB bridge models. I found a Trembucker Seth Lover that didn't have the copper, which makes sense. Obviously a Shop Floor Custom, not a butyrate bobbin, plastic spacer, 4c...
Here's what I REALLY want to know. Like OCD bad.
Have you ever had the magnet out? I had a TBPG from that era, and I always felt something was a little off about it. Throughout the 90/00's I even told a couple people that it sounded like it had an Alnico V in it. After I started at Duncan, I brought it in, and had a big reveal, and sure enough, it was an Alnico V magnet inside! It's still undetermined how it happened, whether it was a mistake, a one-off...but it did not appear to be a magnet swap. It was made that way. I've always wanted to see if there are others in the wild made that way. Can you look to see if the magnet has a blue marker line on it or a black marker line?
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
If you've never done that before be EXTREMELY careful. The grip is nuclear sometimes, so trying to remove it can pull both layers (the kapton tape underneath) and break a coil wire.
If you've never done that before be EXTREMELY careful. The grip is nuclear sometimes, so trying to remove it can pull both layers (the kapton tape underneath) and break a coil wire.
Re: Alnico 2 humbucker comparison between PG, 78 and Slash
its a boy! or blue at least so a2. if it was a5 i would have been very surprised since ive been playing it so long.
im a little hesitant to pull the copper now since the pup sounds great. maybe ill buy a new one and try it on one that im not emotionally attached to
its a boy! or blue at least so a2. if it was a5 i would have been very surprised since ive been playing it so long.
im a little hesitant to pull the copper now since the pup sounds great. maybe ill buy a new one and try it on one that im not emotionally attached to
