Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I seriously doubt $4 retail was a deciding factor.........

You wouldn't think so but from our point of view, we're only looking at it on a small scale, one or two buys every 3 to 6 months or so -- $4 more for a pickup? Big whoop.

But when you're selling tens of thousands of pickups and you have to compete with other makers who have already slimmed your profit margin about as far as it can go, $4 a unit can make a big difference. Even if the customers don't mind in the focus groups, the dealers might not be happy about having to shell out the extra to get the same product on their shelves for the same profit margin -- especially if there are other brands at a more competitive price that are moving off the shelves of other dealers -- and so they won't buy enough of your pickups with this pricier, from their point of view 'market-untested' magnet in it. Or maybe they won't buy any. Or maybe they'll just give you the boot entirely and go with the other brand entirely instead.

Hey, Ibanez was using Alnico 8's and then stopped. With a magnet that sounds this good, why? The only other conceivable reason is cost...

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

You wouldn't think so but from our point of view, we're only looking at it on a small scale, one or two buys every 3 to 6 months or so -- $4 more for a pickup? Big whoop.

But when you're selling tens of thousands of pickups and you have to compete with other makers who have already slimmed your profit margin about as far as it can go, $4 a unit can make a big difference. Even if the customers don't mind in the focus groups, the dealers might not be happy about having to shell out the extra to get the same product on their shelves for the same profit margin -- especially if there are other brands at a more competitive price that are moving off the shelves of other dealers -- and so they won't buy enough of your pickups with this pricier, from their point of view 'market-untested' magnet in it. Or maybe they won't buy any. Or maybe they'll just give you the boot entirely and go with the other brand entirely instead.

Hey, Ibanez was using Alnico 8's and then stopped. With a magnet that sounds this good, why? The only other conceivable reason is cost...

They manage to sell Demons and other proshop models for a considerably higher price than the standard models. This would be no different. Rest assured if the dealer is making 15 point or better even after discount (and they do) I seriously doubt the mfg is doing any worse than that and likely a bit better. Price just isn't the reason in my opinion

 

[SpiderVenom]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I find it hard to believe that they've "slimmed their profit margin as far as it will go". What other industry can charge you $100 or so for a magnet with some wire wound around it? :laugh2:

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

They manage to sell Demons and other proshop models for a considerably higher price than the standard models. This would be no different. Rest assured if the dealer is making 15 point or better even after discount (and they do) I seriously doubt the mfg is doing any worse than that and likely a bit better. Price just isn't the reason in my opinion

In Seymour's case, it could be other reasons as well. He doesn't use Alnico 3 or 4 either even though they cost about the same as 2 and 5. But make no mistake, Seymour, like any businessman worth his salt (or any individual consumer like you and me for that matter), is always going to be looking for a way to cut costs. The price of Alnico 8's might not be the ONLY reason he doesn't use them, but it's got to be a factor.

He strongly implies such is the case in one of those 700 or so FAQ's he has (will dig it up for you later if you like). He mentions Alnico 8 among several other alternative magnet types, and then says they are very viable, but then mentions that they are significantly more expensive.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I find it hard to believe that they've "slimmed their profit margin as far as it will go". What other industry can charge you $100 or so for a magnet with some wire wound around it? :laugh2:

If you've got strong competitors, and Seymour sure does, then your profit margin is pretty slim. Look at his prices -- for the quality of what he puts out, his pickups are pretty bloody cheap, typically in the $70-80 range.

I know you're only half-serious, but if it's really just a magnet with wire wrapped around it, we could make great pickups ourselves while sitting on the couch watching TV. It's like saying a guitar is just wood, metal and plastic for $1,000 or so.

 

[dd12939]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I just got in a pair of A8s from chill today - I am REALLY looking forward to this weekend to pop one of them in my Custom 5. I don't know what I'll do with my other one yet.

Question: how do I know which way to orient the magnet based on polarity??
Thanks...

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

Just popped mine in my LP, jury's still out, as I'm still tweakin with my POD xt. I'll have a clearer picture when I play through my krank.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

Anyone there who popped the A8 into a Distortion (DiMarzio Super Distortion or Dual Sound or SD Distortion)? Just curious!

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

My custom-made hybrid from Jon Moore -- the Big Dog.

11.2k
6.7k screw coil with #43 wire
4.5k slug coil with #42 wire

Can you compare this pickup with and without the A8 ? as Lester did for the custom ?
( I try to image what an A8 would do in a Jazz neck and a Demon )

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

This Jon Moore has what I call "complete" mids -- no peaks, no notches, just very full but far from muddy. Prior to this A8, I had an A5 in it.

The Alnico 8 beefed up the overall output significantly, filled out and tightened the bass response, reinforced the mids even more, but not TOO much. It also added some vintage presence and sweetness to the top without the vintage jangle, although I can still get some jangle and twang when I roll back the Spin-A-Split about half-way.

This Jon Moore Big Dog barks louder and more solidly before, yet with even more articulation and detail.

It would add more lows and mids to the Demon and sweeten the top a bit.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

This Jon Moore Big Dog barks louder and more solidly before, yet with even more articulation and detail.

It would add more lows and mids to the Demon and sweeten the top a bit.[/QUOTE]

You mean before the A8 ( with A5 ) it was louder , more solid with more articulation or the contrary ?

Yes cool for the Demon , it needs more mids and a bit more beef , i think the A5 sound more vintage with the mid dip , it makes highs a bit kniffy .
And it would do the same for the Jazz ; fill the mid and even more beef .

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

It is what it is, so it will have the same relative effect in any pickup with a lower output grade of Alnico. If your pickup had a ceramic in it, the output might be slightly lower.

 

[neosadist]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

It's the wonder magnet, combining all the best qualities of Alnico 2, 5, and ceramic with none of the drawbacks:

Cool. I'd love to buy some Alnico VIII Pros in the future. I think SD can probably remove the drawbacks (lack of sustain, possibly).

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

Cool. I'd love to buy some Alnico VIII Pros in the future. I think SD can probably remove the drawbacks (lack of sustain, possibly).

A slightly de-gaussed version would do the trick.

 

[yontz]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I put mine in a Custom.

It is loud.. very loud. It sounds louder to me than the custom. I hear a dynamic warm lower mid added, and a snarling presence. It sounds to me like a custom with more growl and bite.. It's extremely aggressive.

It sounds to me much closer to the custom than to the C5 or C2.

Anyone else?

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

more agressive ?
I felt A8 was more punchy than A5 but less agressive than ceramic ?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

I haven't A/B'd it with a ceramic in the same pickup -- no ceramics laying around. (I used to have one on my fridge...where'd it go?)

But just going by memory, which I admit is a little fuzzy at this point, the overall output between the two is pretty close.

A8 just has far more of that vintage/organic sweetness and warmth that Alnico in general has compared to ceramic, just with more output, and with none of the weaknesses of the other 4 Alnico Bros.

 

[SpiderVenom]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

If you've got strong competitors, and Seymour sure does, then your profit margin is pretty slim. Look at his prices -- for the quality of what he puts out, his pickups are pretty bloody cheap, typically in the $70-80 range.

I know you're only half-serious, but if it's really just a magnet with wire wrapped around it, we could make great pickups ourselves while sitting on the couch watching TV. It's like saying a guitar is just wood, metal and plastic for $1,000 or so.

Well, that's all a guitar is, really. We're mostly paying for people with knowledge (or people who own nice factory machinery) to put together that wood, metal, and plastic.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

The raw materials in a computer are probably worth $5.00, if that. And for the raw materials in a human being, last I checked it was 65 cents.

We're not paying for what it is -- we're paying for what it can do.

 

[JarickL]

Re: Alnico 8 Results...are IN...

Any other experiences with A8 swaps?

I'll be getting mine from chill next week, and I'm curious as to what I should try them in.

I've got right now a Jazz neck, JB bridge, and a hybrid JB/C5 I bought from a forum member recently. Unfortunately, my guitar has been in pieces for a few months due to my incredibly drawn out refinishing project, so I haven't tried them yet.

Any ideas what the A8's would do to those pickups?