AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

[Studioplayer]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I may be mis-informed, but by turning my guitar's volume control(s) down, I thought I was shunting
more of the volume pot's signal to ground: thus diminishing the full frequencies of my pickup(s) in the process. The loss of volume is perceived by the amount of highs originally produced by the pickup and now shunted off to ground. The result being a reduced amount of volume and a "cleaner" tone. The amp has not changed its characteristics in tone. Rolling my volumes back brings the highs and all the other frequencies along with them. Am I in the ball park here?

I'm in the process of trying to,dial in two different Les Pauls to my Orange Dark Terror. The amp has four stages of gain and is generally known for being a high-gain animal. One guitar has Seths and the other a 490R/Burstbucker Pro. I'm trying to find the ability to control the amp with just my guitar, but it has been a challenge. I've had some excellent advice on different forums, but I need to sit down and have someone experienced at controlling high gain amps to lend me a hand. Has anyone undergone something similar in this regard? Seems to be taking me more time to accomplish than I anticipated.


Studioplayer

 

[AlexR]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Clean or dirty is all in the amp. Your pickup produces a signal, and its the overloading of an amplification stage leading to a distortion of the original signal that makes it overdriven. EMG's have an amplifier in the pickup before it gets to the amp.

What I was saying before about the pot, pickup and amp all being part of it is even more relevant here. Cleaning up is the lowering of the input signal such that the amp is no longer pushing any of its amplification stages past its operational capacity. The further the gain stages push the signal, the further back you will have to dial
High gain amps are made to push the signal so hard that there is almost no possibility of a clean signal when the gain is up. They will have degrees of saturation....from very little to a hell of a lot.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I have read some manufacturer's description that say they allow to be cleaned up when rolling off the volume... I quote here "Rolling off the volume knob reveals great, useable clean tones." I know, that even though I'm quoting them, it does not mean that it's true or correct.

They make stuff up.

Unless the pickups in question require a battery, there is no gain stage there.

 

[beaubrummels]

AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I understand that, the taper only changes the range in which a given resistance value will be "added" to the circuit, and changing between LOG & LIN should not have a different effect on the volume or gain. However, in my case it does, the amp is the same for both cases I described. I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume. Could this be the explanation? If the amp is the same adn we're assuming that LIN5 = LOG7 (more or less) then the effects of mantaining volume or losing gain would be due to the different pickups?

If it helps, the guitar that cleans up while mantaining volume is a Gibson Les Paul with Burstbucker Pro's and 500k LOG pots. The guitar that reduced the volume while mantaining gain is an Epi Les Paul with Alnico Classics and linear pots. I will try to swap the pots on the Epi and see if I get something similar to the Gibson.

Are burstbuckers and Alnico Classics the same output level? If the Classics are hotter, that would explain the BBs cleaning up while the Classics just losing distortion without it seeming like the volume changed (though it did, it's just masked by that fact you are in the range of distortion of the amp which is clipped, so sounds the same level)

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Are burstbuckers and Alnico Classics the same output level? If the Classics are hotter, that would explain the BBs cleaning up while the Classics just losing distortion without it seeming like the volume changed (though it did, it's just masked by that fact you are in the range of distortion of the amp which is clipped, so sounds the same level)

Well, they both have AlNiCo V magnets, but the DCR is not the same, although I don't know if this differences are enough to cause what you described. This is what I found:

Epiphone Alnico Classic: Neck 8.5k and Bridge 13.85k
Gibson Burstbucker Pro: Neck 8.2k and Bridge 8.7k

 

[AlexR]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

That bridge pickup is certainly enough to explain the difference. Its most likely a 43AWG pickup, which means you cannot simply look at the DCR and do direct number comparisons. But if you compare say a Duncan Custom to a 59 then you are close enough in Duncan equivalents. And they are 2 very different pickups in the way they work with gain and rolloff.

As beau has said, with saturation you only roll back the level of that saturation for quite a way if you have a hot pickup. Only then do you start to roll back into cleaner tone....which is where volume comes into play.