AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

[Mincer]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I use a Alnico II Pro & 59/Custom Hybrid in a Steinberger. It works well for me.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

This is exactly what I want! Could you give me more info about your wiring?
Whether if I need vintage/modern wiring to accomplish that or audio/linear pots or something else.



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I'm using 50's wiring with 500k CTS pots, linear volumes and log taper tones. I keep the bridge tone rolled off slightly about 8, the neck tone I generally leave at 10 to get all the brightness I can.

I measured all the pots and put the higher values on the neck and lower values on the bridge. For example, my bridge volume might actually measure as a 476k pot and the neck might be a 510k pot. I take advantage of the 10-20% slop in tolerance to try and better balance neck vs bridge.

You don't need 50's wiring. If you use higher value pots and modern wiring it can work just as well. I like the small bit of 'presence' 50's wiring gives me without resorting to treble bleeds and other wiring tricks. 50's wiring sounds more like famous recordings to me. I feel like I'm hearing more of the actual pickup when comparing the same pickup and guitar wired modern. And I don't change the tones within any single song enough to where the interaction issues people talk about affect me.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I'm using 50's wiring with 500k CTS pots, linear volumes and log taper tones. I keep the bridge tone rolled off slightly about 8, the neck tone I generally leave at 10 to get all the brightness I can.

I measured all the pots and put the higher values on the neck and lower values on the bridge. For example, my bridge volume might actually measure as a 476k pot and the neck might be a 510k pot. I take advantage of the 10-20% slop in tolerance to try and better balance neck vs bridge.

You don't need 50's wiring. If you use higher value pots and modern wiring it can work just as well. I like the small bit of 'presence' 50's wiring gives me without resorting to treble bleeds and other wiring tricks. 50's wiring sounds more like famous recordings to me. I feel like I'm hearing more of the actual pickup when comparing the same pickup and guitar wired modern. And I don't change the tones within any single song enough to where the interaction issues people talk about affect me.

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! I’ll check my pots and move them or replace them if necessary. As for the 50‘s wiring, I’ll give it a try anyway, I’m curious about it.


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[Studioplayer]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I'm using 50's wiring with 500k CTS pots, linear volumes and log taper tones. I keep the bridge tone rolled off slightly about 8, the neck tone I generally leave at 10 to get all the brightness I can.

I measured all the pots and put the higher values on the neck and lower values on the bridge. For example, my bridge volume might actually measure as a 476k pot and the neck might be a 510k pot. I take advantage of the 10-20% slop in tolerance to try and better balance neck vs bridge.

You don't need 50's wiring. If you use higher value pots and modern wiring it can work just as well. I like the small bit of 'presence' 50's wiring gives me without resorting to treble bleeds and other wiring tricks. 50's wiring sounds more like famous recordings to me. I feel like I'm hearing more of the actual pickup when comparing the same pickup and guitar wired modern. And I don't change the tones within any single song enough to where the interaction issues people talk about affect me.

I'm doing something similar with a Gibson Les Paul Studio Deluxe. It is a stock Les Paul from 2010, and has the 496R/Burstbucker V pair for its pickups. The pots are 500k CTS all around and feature coil tab on the volume pots. The pickups are the design where the Alnico II neck and Alnico V in the bridge seem a good fit for each other. I e.q. my amps for the neck pup on this guitar. It allows me to play with some versatile tones for everything from smokey 50’s styled Grant Green tones on the neck and as up to date as Slash and his brand of bright grainy tone with the BB Pro (Alnico V).

I cannot think of another alteration I could recommend to improve my tone with this guitar. I just happen to like this pair of pickups in this particular guitar. If anyone is interested in hearing an example of how this guitarbsounds under gain, check out Scott Bis and his YouTube channel for examples of the Studio Deluxe.


Studioplayer

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I'm using 50's wiring with 500k CTS pots, linear volumes and log taper tones. I keep the bridge tone rolled off slightly about 8, the neck tone I generally leave at 10 to get all the brightness I can.

I measured all the pots and put the higher values on the neck and lower values on the bridge. For example, my bridge volume might actually measure as a 476k pot and the neck might be a 510k pot. I take advantage of the 10-20% slop in tolerance to try and better balance neck vs bridge.

You don't need 50's wiring. If you use higher value pots and modern wiring it can work just as well. I like the small bit of 'presence' 50's wiring gives me without resorting to treble bleeds and other wiring tricks. 50's wiring sounds more like famous recordings to me. I feel like I'm hearing more of the actual pickup when comparing the same pickup and guitar wired modern. And I don't change the tones within any single song enough to where the interaction issues people talk about affect me.

I have a question regarding the pot taper. Now I own LP guitars with LOG and with LIN volume pots and I’ve noticed the following:

With LOG pots I can clean up with minimal volume loss. That means that at 10 I have crunch, at 8 I have very mild distortion and at 7 the sound is clean, all of this at pretty much the same volume.

With LIN pots I control de volume while maintaining the amount of gain. Meaning that from 10-5 I can keep the same amount of gain and adjust the volume accordingly.

Therefore, I use LOG pots at home where I have a one-channel amp with constant settings and I control the gain from the guitar. And I use LIN pots at the studio where I change the gain and amp channels with a pedalboard and I use the guitar controls to control the volume without affecting the sound.

Do you agree with this? Any different or opposite experiences?


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[AlexR]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Pots, the pickup and the amp all combine. There is no standard to how it works.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Pots, the pickup and the amp all combine. There is no standard to how it works.

The pors are LIN & LOG as I described. The amp and its settings are exactly the same. The pickups are not the same, but they are both AlNiCo V‘s with similar DCR.




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[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I’ve always been a big fan of A5’s in the bridge & A2’s in the neck myself...

 

[AlexR]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

The pors are LIN & LOG as I described. The amp and its settings are exactly the same. The pickups are not the same, but they are both AlNiCo V‘s with similar DCR.




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But you just asked others for their experiences.......which straightaway includes variation for every aspect of the rig - additionally including the player and style of music. As I said before, the 3 aspects combine for each player to make for a lot of different experiences. Whilst you are asking for such, without knowing how the very rig works and the drive level each person runs at the experiences related will be impossible to convert to how you run yours.
Plus not all tapers are the same from different pot makers.....a type of taper has a range of variance where it can be classified under the same type.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I have a question regarding the pot taper. Now I own LP guitars with LOG and with LIN volume pots and I’ve noticed the following:

With LOG pots I can clean up with minimal volume loss. That means that at 10 I have crunch, at 8 I have very mild distortion and at 7 the sound is clean, all of this at pretty much the same volume.

With LIN pots I control de volume while maintaining the amount of gain. Meaning that from 10-5 I can keep the same amount of gain and adjust the volume accordingly.

Therefore, I use LOG pots at home where I have a one-channel amp with constant settings and I control the gain from the guitar. And I use LIN pots at the studio where I change the gain and amp channels with a pedalboard and I use the guitar controls to control the volume without affecting the sound.

Do you agree with this? Any different or opposite experiences?


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Literally the only difference between audio and linear is in how much resistance there is at any point along the sweep, but they both start at max resistance and end and no resistance, so what happens with one will happen with the other, just in a different spot. Since they're fundamentally the same, one would not be able to do something wholly different from the other, such as reduce the volume while maintaining the same about of gain, for example. You're probably misattributing cause and effect.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

But you just asked others for their experiences.......which straightaway includes variation for every aspect of the rig - additionally including the player and style of music. As I said before, the 3 aspects combine for each player to make for a lot of different experiences. Whilst you are asking for such, without knowing how the very rig works and the drive level each person runs at the experiences related will be impossible to convert to how you run yours.
Plus not all tapers are the same from different pot makers.....a type of taper has a range of variance where it can be classified under the same type.

I understand what you mean and how all the parts play a role. I was trying to see if I keep the rest constant, I could isolate the LOG/LIN effects as I've described them. I will experiments with those guitars, changing the pots, pickups and amp settings and see what I find.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Since they're fundamentally the same, one would not be able to do something wholly different from the other, such as reduce the volume while maintaining the same about of gain, for example. You're probably misattributing cause and effect.

Therefore, if the amp and its settings have been kept constant and now we're assuming that the pots will have similar effects, then the ability to clean or adjust volume with the same gain will have to be attributed to the pickups?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I have a question regarding the pot taper. Now I own LP guitars with LOG and with LIN volume pots and I’ve noticed the following:

With LOG pots I can clean up with minimal volume loss. That means that at 10 I have crunch, at 8 I have very mild distortion and at 7 the sound is clean, all of this at pretty much the same volume.

With LIN pots I control de volume while maintaining the amount of gain. Meaning that from 10-5 I can keep the same amount of gain and adjust the volume accordingly.

Therefore, I use LOG pots at home where I have a one-channel amp with constant settings and I control the gain from the guitar. And I use LIN pots at the studio where I change the gain and amp channels with a pedalboard and I use the guitar controls to control the volume without affecting the sound.

Do you agree with this? Any different or opposite experiences?


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The same signal reduction that happens from 10-5 with LIN happens from 10-7 with LOG (roughly speaking, some have it more severe where 10-8 LOG = 10-5 LIN). So it's just changing the range for the same volume drop. You're not really getting any gain change more sophisticated than that.

If 10-8 goes from distortion to clean, that tells me the amp is either at the edge of breakup or doesn't have a lot of gain in the preamp section, and/or is using power amp distortion.

If 10-5 stays distorted but changes in volume, that tells me you're either using a distortion pedal, or using preamp distortion on that amp.

Sounds like different amps that are set differently from home to studio to me. But that's just a guess based on the description and my experience with various amps and guitars together.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

Therefore, if the amp and its settings have been kept constant and now we're assuming that the pots will have similar effects, then the ability to clean or adjust volume with the same gain will have to be attributed to the pickups?

I'm saying that the difference between audio and linear tapper is relatively superficial, and are the same from a circuit topology standpoint.

I can't explain what you're hearing, it's not really possible to reduce the volume and keep the same gain with the guitar's volume, because it's way ahead of the gain stage. Only the amp's master volume could do something like what you're describing.

 

[Toejam]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

By the time I get a tone that I like with most Alnico V based pickups, an Alnico II based neck is really muddy.

Some people prefer the opposite for that very reason; AV neck and A2 bridge.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

The same signal reduction that happens from 10-5 with LIN happens from 10-7 with LOG (roughly speaking, some have it more severe where 10-8 LOG = 10-5 LIN). So it's just changing the range for the same volume drop. You're not really getting any gain change more sophisticated than that.

If 10-8 goes from distortion to clean, that tells me the amp is either at the edge of breakup or doesn't have a lot of gain in the preamp section, and/or is using power amp distortion.

If 10-5 stays distorted but changes in volume, that tells me you're either using a distortion pedal, or using preamp distortion on that amp.

Sounds like different amps that are set differently from home to studio to me. But that's just a guess based on the description and my experience with various amps and guitars together.

I understand that, the taper only changes the range in which a given resistance value will be "added" to the circuit, and changing between LOG & LIN should not have a different effect on the volume or gain. However, in my case it does, the amp is the same for both cases I described. I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume. Could this be the explanation? If the amp is the same adn we're assuming that LIN5 = LOG7 (more or less) then the effects of mantaining volume or losing gain would be due to the different pickups?

If it helps, the guitar that cleans up while mantaining volume is a Gibson Les Paul with Burstbucker Pro's and 500k LOG pots. The guitar that reduced the volume while mantaining gain is an Epi Les Paul with Alnico Classics and linear pots. I will try to swap the pots on the Epi and see if I get something similar to the Gibson.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

I understand that, the taper only changes the range in which a given resistance value will be "added" to the circuit, and changing between LOG & LIN should not have a different effect on the volume or gain. However, in my case it does, the amp is the same for both cases I described. I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume. Could this be the explanation? If the amp is the same adn we're assuming that LIN5 = LOG7 (more or less) then the effects of mantaining volume or losing gain would be due to the different pickups?

If it helps, the guitar that cleans up while mantaining volume is a Gibson Les Paul with Burstbucker Pro's and 500k LOG pots. The guitar that reduced the volume while mantaining gain is an Epi Les Paul with Alnico Classics and linear pots. I will try to swap the pots on the Epi and see if I get something similar to the Gibson.

I don't think it's sinking in: the taper can't have the effect that you think it does. An audio taper pot looks identical to a linear pot in a circuit. The difference is merely one of convenience. The difference you're describing between them in an error of perception, or it's possible that the resistance value of the audio and linear pots you've been using are not actually the same, and are changing the circuit as result.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

As for "I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume." , that's never a feature of a pickups, because pickups don't clip, amplifiers and pedals clip.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

As for "I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume." , that's never a feature of a pickups, because pickups don't clip, amplifiers and pedals clip.

EMG's do clip.

Before they hit the volume, pot, though.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: AlNiCo II set or II+V combo?

As for "I've read that some pickups allow themselves to be "cleaned up" with the volume." , that's never a feature of a pickups, because pickups don't clip, amplifiers and pedals clip.

I have read some manufacturer's description that say they allow to be cleaned up when rolling off the volume... I quote here "Rolling off the volume knob reveals great, useable clean tones." I know, that even though I'm quoting them, it does not mean that it's true or correct.