Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

[duke]

Hey there,

Can somebody help me fiigure out the difference between ceramic and alnico pickups? I know that the ceramics usually have a bigger output than the alnico ones but not much more than that. The reason im asking about this is that im looking for a pickup that's kind of like Slash's but with good squeals close to Zakk Wylde's. I know Zakk uses EMG but those are not the ones i want because i play a combination of rock'n roll, blues, punk and some coutry, not metal. I have a pretty big sound thick but not bassy with a healthy dose of overdrive. I use a Gibson Les Paul Classic through a Marshall TSL100 half stack.
Any help would be useful.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Hey Duke WELCOME to the Forum!

As for what you're looking for squeal-wise...I've always been told that's more in the hands than anything BUT as far as pups and magnets go.

Ceramics---More powerful and usually with more high end a bit more brittle sounding. They usually sound more aggressive and excel at mid to high gain applications.

Alnico---There are different Alnico mixtures resulting in different magnet of differing strengths as well as attributes. The only ones I'm familiar (and are available in the Duncan Line) are the A2 and A5

Alnico 2---more midrange not as strong and allows for free-er string vibration resulting in more sustain

Alnico 5---more highs and bass, these magnets are in between a A2 and a Ceramic (in the SD line) The winding can accentuate the mids like the JB model with lots of high mids. The winding can also accentuate the lows and highs like the C5

The old original Gibson pups were of different Alnico varieties. The Seth Lover, or 59 are two of the closest clones made. The Alnico 2 Pro (which Slash uses) is a variation, as is the Pearly Gates (developed for Billy Gibbons)

For a similiar pup to what you have you might want to check out a Custom. It is ceramic magnet equipped pup like your 500T

For a smoother with more midrange tone (more akin to a Slash sound) try the Custom Custom (CC). It is the same coil configuration but with a different magnet (A2).

For more Treble and Bass and less mids, you can try a Custom 5 (C5) which is still the same coil configuration but with a different (A5) magnet.

The custom series are great high output pups with a nod to classic sound but with a kick in the pants. They are very versatile and will cover the ground you want.

Honorable mention goes to the JB, but you might not like the sound in your Paul (I didn't like it in my Heritage 150) it has fair bass and low mids a large upper mid spike and good highs.

Hope that helps man

Luke

 

[duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Thanks man, that does clear it up a bit for me.
You mentioned that the squeals are more in the hands than anything but the thing is, i have an Epiphone Les Paul with Alnico 2 pro's pups that i have used before getting the Gibson and i have not had any trouble getting the squeals. I also tried a Gibson Les Paul 57' reissue at a store once (i think that it comes with burstbuckers) and again had no problems at getting them, and the difference between that Gibson and mine is most likely rather little. That's what got me thinking that it might be the pickups, something about them being hotter than A2 or A5.
Thanx again for the tips, i'll definetely try the customs, hope one of them works.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

That's strange (the squeals ). Are the squeals you are talking about the same as pinch harmonics?

The A2Ps (great pups!) and the Burstbuckers are both low-mid output pups, it very well might be that your current pups are not transferring the squeals do to their abundant strength. The DC resistance of the 500T is almost twice as much as an A2P. The ceramic magnet is another difference, resulting in a hotter pup. You also have Duncan's exchange policy on your side. I'd start off with a lower output pup (A2P PG) and if that didn't do it I'd go to the higher output pups.

Luke

 

[SABOTAGE]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Hey there,

Can somebody help me fiigure out the difference between ceramic and alnico pickups? I know that the ceramics usually have a bigger output than the alnico ones but not much more than that. The reason im asking about this is that im looking for a pickup that's kind of like Slash's but with good squeals close to Zakk Wylde's. I know Zakk uses EMG but those are not the ones i want because i play a combination of rock'n roll, blues, punk and some coutry, not metal. I have a pretty big sound thick but not bassy with a healthy dose of overdrive. I use a Gibson Les Paul Classic through a Marshall TSL100 half stack.
Any help would be useful.

ceramic is best suited for in yer face metal,not to say you cant use ceramics for other stuff, but the alnico II,III,5's are the more lets say "musical" sounding magnets.
all of the vintage guys use II or 5.
the custom is a cool cermaic pup that allows one to still have that more traditional classic tone with just more of it.
but most other ceramic models are pretty much set to "KILL SWITCH ENGAGED" :laugh2:

 

[duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Yeah, the squeals that im talking about are the same thing as pinch harmonics or artificial harmonics. It could be that the 500T is so hot that it picks up other sounds with the pinch and cover it up
I went to a guitar retailer that sells Seymour Duncan's as well and one of the dudes there let me try his Les Paul that is equipped with a Custom 5 and a '59 and some ESP guitar ( maple top/mahogany back but smaller that an LP) with a JB and a '59 and i figured that i want something in between and he also recommended the Duncan Custom, so i think im gonna go for it.
He also said that it would work with a '59 in the neck but what im wondering is whether the guitar would lose a lot of distortion and volume when i switch pups in mid song, since the '59 has a lower output than a Custom.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Yeah, the squeals that im talking about are the same thing as pinch harmonics or artificial harmonics. It could be that the 500T is so hot that it picks up other sounds with the pinch and cover it up
I went to a guitar retailer that sells Seymour Duncan's as well and one of the dudes there let me try his Les Paul that is equipped with a Custom 5 and a '59 and some ESP guitar ( maple top/mahogany back but smaller that an LP) with a JB and a '59 and i figured that i want something in between and he also recommended the Duncan Custom, so i think im gonna go for it.
He also said that it would work with a '59 in the neck but what im wondering is whether the guitar would lose a lot of distortion and volume when i switch pups in mid song, since the '59 has a lower output than a Custom.

Most guitars are going to have a lower output pup in the neck. I would suggest a jazz. It sounds excellent in my Heritage 150. The right amount of mids and highs and best of all it cleans up a naturally muddy sounding spot. The 59 is more scooped than the jazz. The jazz has more mids and less lows thanthe 59 but approximately the same amount of highs. If you want an even warmer sound you can go for a pup with an A2 magnet.

I really think you'll be happey with the custom. It will have approximately the same amount of output and that aggressive ceramic sound, but well done and still fairly warm.

So what color bobbins are you gonna get? Dbl. Black? Zebra? DBL. CREME?? :naughty:

Luke

 

[papersoul]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I still think it is difficult to pigeon hole a pickup based on the magnet. Take the Custom and C-5 for example. I find the Custom warmer, thicker and smoother than the C-5 due to the added midrange. I also find the highs on the C-5 are more shrill and somewhat annoying compared to the smoother highs of the Custom.

 

[SABOTAGE]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I still think it is difficult to pigeon hole a pickup based on the magnet. Take the Custom and C-5 for example. I find the Custom warmer, thicker and smoother than the C-5 due to the added midrange. I also find the highs on the C-5 are more shrill and somewhat annoying compared to the smoother highs of the Custom.

I agree with this!
papersoul is right, the custom has more body and a nicer fatter high end even tough it uses the ceramic?

 

[papersoul]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I agree with this!
papersoul is right, the custom has more body and a nicer fatter high end even tough it uses the ceramic?

Yes, to me...the Custom has the meat. I am not sure what is meant in the Duncan description about the C-5 being fuller - maybe more open?

 

[HarrisonDavid]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Hey there,

Can somebody help me fiigure out the difference between ceramic and alnico pickups? I know that the ceramics usually have a bigger output than the alnico ones but not much more than that. The reason im asking about this is that im looking for a pickup that's kind of like Slash's but with good squeals close to Zakk Wylde's. I know Zakk uses EMG but those are not the ones i want because i play a combination of rock'n roll, blues, punk and some coutry, not metal. I have a pretty big sound thick but not bassy with a healthy dose of overdrive. I use a Gibson Les Paul Classic through a Marshall TSL100 half stack.
Any help would be useful.

Here is your answer Billlawrence.com 500XL Im ordering a set for my Les paul studio. Im going with a 500XL and 500c They look awesome too. Dimebag used these originally. These PUPS will cover all your needs as far as your style. They are hot, but keep a lot of FEEL to your playing. Check Harmony Central for reviews too.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I'm with you guys. The custom series is the BEST example of magnet, and coil interaction creating completely different pups. I just don't like the C5 the highs is blech the mids, non-existent, and the good lows.

Luke

 

[papersoul]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Here is your answer Billlawrence.com 500XL Im ordering a set for my Les paul studio. Im going with a 500XL and 500c They look awesome too. Dimebag used these originally. These PUPS will cover all your needs as far as your style. They are hot, but keep a lot of FEEL to your playing. Check Harmony Central for reviews too.

Welcome to the forum.

How does the 500XL compare to the Duncan Custom?

 

[HarrisonDavid]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

How does the 500XL compare to the Duncan Custom?

You know I really couldn't tell you. I just have read numerous and numerous reviews that these PUPS are really versatile and still HOT, keeping your natural tone too.

Theodie probably could answer your question......

 

[duke]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Most guitars are going to have a lower output pup in the neck. I would suggest a jazz. It sounds excellent in my Heritage 150. The right amount of mids and highs and best of all it cleans up a naturally muddy sounding spot. The 59 is more scooped than the jazz. The jazz has more mids and less lows thanthe 59 but approximately the same amount of highs. If you want an even warmer sound you can go for a pup with an A2 magnet.

I really think you'll be happey with the custom. It will have approximately the same amount of output and that aggressive ceramic sound, but well done and still fairly warm.

So what color bobbins are you gonna get? Dbl. Black? Zebra? DBL. CREME?? :naughty:

Luke

Yeah, i should be happy with the Custom, it not as expensive as I thought so I could get something else if not, but it sounds like im gonna love it.
I think im gonna go for the black bobbins. I have a Honeyburst LP and the ones in it are black and look pretty cool.
Do you think that the Custom would affect the sustain somewhat? I kinda like it long and smooth changing to feedback.
I think im gonna go back to that retailer sometime soon and see if i can compare a '59 to a jazz, to make the right choice, though i realised i'm pretty comfortable with the 496R.
I just remembered about one more thing I wanted to ask. Is there a difference in sound between a 2 conductor wiring pup and a 4 conductor one?

 

[Dirtyking]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I think im gonna go back to that retailer sometime soon and see if i can compare a '59 to a jazz, to make the right choice, though i realised i'm pretty comfortable with the 496R.
I just remembered about one more thing I wanted to ask. Is there a difference in sound between a 2 conductor wiring pup and a 4 conductor one?

The 496R neck pup to me is one of the best gibson has ever made. I'd get the Custom and see how well they play together.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I still think it is difficult to pigeon hole a pickup based on the magnet. Take the Custom and C-5 for example. I find the Custom warmer, thicker and smoother than the C-5 due to the added midrange. I also find the highs on the C-5 are more shrill and somewhat annoying compared to the smoother highs of the Custom.

Exactly. More mids (Custom & Custom Custom) will tend to make a pickup sound warmer and thicker than a pickup with less mids (Custom 5) even if both have plenty of highs. Lots of mids sort of covers up the treble...sort of.

Seymour has mentioned that compared to alnico, ceramic gives the treble frequencies more sizzle and that might be true. But Duncan ceramic (and alnico 2) humbuckers also tend to have more mids than Duncan alnico 5 humbuckers and that makes that sizzling treble blend into the mids and not sound so sizzly after all! :smack:

That's my sense of it anyway.

The Custom, Custom 5 and Custom Custom are all exactly the same pickup with a ceramic, alnico 5 and alnico 2 magnet respectively.

Trying all three in the same guitar some day will give a player a clear feel for the difference the different magnets make in the exact same pickup.

Lew

 

[SABOTAGE]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

Yes, to me...the Custom has the meat. I am not sure what is meant in the Duncan description about the C-5 being fuller - maybe more open?

fuller? no way!! the C5 is anything lacks fullness due to it's pulled back mids.
I hate scooped pups that have the mids backed off away from the treb/bass
i like a balanced tone like the DD has or the custom ceramic has.
the JB is a bit too middy for me but it still slays the C5 :laugh2:

 

[Youngpup]

Re: Alnico or ceramic humbuckers

I just remembered about one more thing I wanted to ask. Is there a difference in sound between a 2 conductor wiring pup and a 4 conductor one?

[/QUOTE]



There is no difference in the sound or tone of a 2 or 4 conductor wired pickup, it's just that instead of grounding out the two extra leads they bring all four out so you can have the combination of splitting coils or doing series, parrlal wiring. Does that answere you question?

Youngpup