Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Southbound Suarez

Southbound Suarez

New member
I have (3) Seymour Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R pickups. (2) are from 87' and one is from 89'. I had originally calibrated the 3 together, hottest in the lead position, and least hottest in the neck position. I took my strat guitar with the (3) APS-1R pups to have shielding done by my local luthier. Something didn't sound right, so I took the pickguard off and measured the pickup positions. 6.22K Bridge ; 5.96K Middle ; 8.24K Neck? I measured the neck again, in and out of circuit. Still the same outcome 8.24K Neck. This luthier wrapped copper shielding around the pickup, and not around the inside of the pickup cover (as should be done), plus a piece of this same copper is directly over the black lead solder terminal on the bottom of the bobbin (i.e. where the black lead wire is attached). This luthier may have also wax potted all (3) pups. According to the luthier the shielding is carbon backed copper that for shielding purposes measures 0 Ohms resistance. What is causing this high DC resistance reading when I know that it's in error? I dare not remove the shielding because if the shielding is touching the windings then I could short or open the windings by said removal. I have also noticed also that the A and E strings lack punch but the other strings seem to sound OK other than the pickup having an overall higher D.C. resistance (approximately 2K more). The luthier doesn't seem interested in correcting his error. This is a 22 year old pup, and I really love all (3) APS-1R's (because they're all of vintage age now, and they HAD the magnificent tone prior to this incident to back it up) however, the Seymour Duncan shop quotes me $65 for a rewind when you can buy one for $55 or less. I'm in a quandary as to what to do because I'm unemployed and don't have the $65 rewind funds, can someone please help a guy out with reasonings behind the increased output and/or suggestions for replacement and/or rewinding? A special thanks go out ahead of time for those who may be able to assist me. :thanks:
 
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Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

So the neck also SOUNDS like it's suddenly 8.24k? If so, this is a real head scratcher. The shielding wouldn't add any "turns" to give you an extra 2k or so, the guy is right, it's pretty much zero ohms and can't accidently add any to the DCR reading.

Now, does the pickup actually sound like it has that much more output than it did before, or does it just sound a bit duller, which is normal when adding copper shielding?
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Hi Zhangliqun, I remember you from the Les Paul Forum. How's the pickup winding business going? I hear all sorts of good things and rave reviews about your PAF sets. Yes, this is a very perplexing scenario as I've never heard of DC resistance readings increasing unless the pickup is still connected and there is some loading from the pots, switches, caps, etc. I desoldered the hot lead from the 5 way switch and still got 8.24K. The High E through D string seem to sound normal but the A and E have less volume and very little sustain. At one time when I was testing said pickup with the neck position switch selected, and the pickup in circuit I read around 3.26?K but never got it to replicate that reading again. The pickup noticeably sounds fuller and hotter than it was before (more like a P-90 to PAF) but of course an 8.24K DC resistance pup will sound like that.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

That's a real mystery. The only thing I can suggest without seeing it in person is to pull the copper tape off an see what happens.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Zhang, I really hesitate doing so, because 1) the copper tape looks to be pressed or tight against the coil 2) I could short or open the windings in removing said tape. What has crossed my mind is that Bob Warner, Warner Guitars 405-844-9990 winds pickups, and he may have damaged said pickup when potting/shielding the pickup, so he rewinds it to a hotter than normal output (unbeknownst to him). If so it's a critical mistake that I caught, although it doesn't help me much, as he is disinterested in correcting his mistake. I received an oh well response from him, unfortunately.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

I tell ya what, yank the tape off and if there's any damage I'll do a free rewind since it's my idea.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Zhang, I knew it (that is, that you're a really good guy) all the guys on the Les Paul forum can't be wrong. Later tonight when all's quiet around here, I'll do just that (peel back the copper shielding) and we'll get to the heart of the matter on this quandary. I sincerely hope that I won't have to rewind the pickup, but the more I think about it, the scenario I proposed earlier seems to be more and more plausible (that Bob Warner shorted out the pickup, and rewound it thinking I wouldn't catch it) that's why he is so remiss to help. Sincerely buddy, thanks so much for the offer because I've been out of work since 9/08 and $65 is now quite a large sum for me to pay (Seymour's custom shop rewind fee). :thanks:
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

I occasionally do a pro bono wind. Let me know the results and we'll take it from there.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

You've got it buddy, as soon as I determine what's going on with this pickup you'll be the first to know. Thanks so much again.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

I hope you get everything figured out. A question though; are the bridge and middle pickups the same readings? You didn't mention it or I missed it... Maybe he rewired the pickups in the wrong order?
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

In my very first opening thread, I gave the bridge and middle pup's DC resistance readings. I was lucky enough to have purchased (3) pups that had slight enough differences in readings which allowed me to "calibrate" the pup set whilst gaining the noticeable tones from bridge to neck when switching through the 5 way.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Just an idle thought, assuming that removing the shielding does not reduce the resistance of the suspect pup, maybe you could try it in the bridge before looking at rewinding. You might like it in that position.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

mark le comte said:
just an idle thought, assuming that removing the shielding does not reduce the resistance of the suspect pup, maybe you could try it in the bridge before looking at rewinding. You might like it in that position.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Zhang, you're absolutely going to love this. Before removal DCR 8.24K, removed the neck APS-1R pup and removed the cover pup now reads DCR 8.33K. Now I carefully peel back the copper shielding and notice that black ribbon has been wrapped and secured around the bare bobbin (to keep the adhesive side of the copper shielding tape from adhering to the formvar wound bobbin) now the final reading DCR 8.39K. The wound bobbin clearly appears to be a fatter wind than a typical APS-1R. As I surmised, I truly believe that the luthier Bob Warner rewound the pickup after damaging it during installation or removal. I am not a happy camper whereas the luthier Bob Warner is concerned.
To answer the last question posed, I have never cared for hot pups. I would have a 8.39K Bridge a 6.22K Middle and a 5.96K Neck which would be totally unbalanced. It proves to be especially problematic when this 8.39K pup has issues with sustain and volume on the Low E and Low A strings (as stated previously) and the 6.22K Bridge pickup's leads are too short. There was a very good reason for the short leads as the 6.22K APS-1R pup was initially the hottest pup of the (3) APS-1R's. APS-1R pickups were never designed for 8K output (5K-6K range). If the luthier Bob Warner was aware of this fact maybe he would have been more careful to rewind the neck APS-1R to spec, instead of trying to pass this anomally off on me. I wouldn't own up to a screw up like that myself, especially if I had to rewind a customer's pickup, overwound it and didn't speak a word of it to the customer. :banghead:
 
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Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Southbound Suarez said:
Zhang, you're absolutely going to love this. Before removal DCR 8.24K, removed the neck APS-1R pup and removed the cover pup now reads DCR 8.33K. Now I carefully peel back the copper shielding and notice that black ribbon has been wrapped and secured around the bare bobbin (to keep the adhesive side of the copper shielding tape from adhering to the formvar wound bobbin) now the final reading DCR 8.39K. The wound bobbin clearly appears to be a fatter wind than a typical APS-1R. As I surmised, I truly believe that the luthier Bob Warner rewound the pickup after damaging it during installation or removal. I am not a happy camper whereas the luthier Bob Warner is concerned.
Click to expand...

It appears you're right, it's a rewind. But most luthiers to my knowledge are not winders themselves because they've got enough work to do just making the rest of the guitar. Does this guy wind? If not, he must have subbed it out to a local winder and there was some miscommunication on the spec...

But the DCR creeping up from 8.24 to 8.39 is no big deal at all. Even slight temperature changes -- namely the body heat from your fingertips since you were handling it a lot, believe it or not -- will make that much of a change, especially if the room is below 70 degrees.
 
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Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Yes Zhang, this guy does wind as well as doing all other kinds of guitar work. I think he's spread himself too thin as his wife and son help out plus they have wheat acreage that has to be harvested (like now for example) so his work suffers, and by his own admonition in one of his past comments the last thing that he wants when he goes home is to think, see, or hear guitars on TV or otherwise. I should have taken this as a high sign we he said it and gone elsewhere. There's another guy in Oklahoma City, Honest Ron's Guitars. Forget the Honest, as he proved otherwise to me in a past dealing that I had with him, Ron stopped giving a s--- as well and it shows in his work. It's very unfortunate with these local guitar guys. It prompts you to start learning how to do your own guitar work, or source out to another state to someone who does give a s--- about customer satisfaction.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

Zhang, could you still do a pro bono rewind on the APS-1R neck pup bringing it to anywhere from 5.7K to 6.1K? As mentioned earlier my present setup is a 6.22K Bridge and a 5.96K Middle. If I put a rewound 5.7 - 5.8K in the Neck position, or moved the Middle pup to the Neck position and put a rewind of 6.0 - 6.1K in the Middle position, this way I could still retain a balanced natural feel when switching through the 5 way switch.
 
Re: Alnico Pro Strat APS-1R DC resistance increase to 8.24K?

For maximum cluck, I recommend the middle pu be weakest. But I'm still game. PM me to discuss further...
 
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