alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
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Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I like em all. Different sounds. For blistering hot distorto, I like ceramic. Just a brighter mag to me. A2's are my next fave...smooth, fat, ahhhhhhh. Just depends on the guitar/ music / amp. A5 is the all around middle IMO.
I like em all. Different sounds. For blistering hot distorto, I like ceramic. Just a brighter mag to me. A2's are my next fave...smooth, fat, ahhhhhhh. Just depends on the guitar/ music / amp. A5 is the all around middle IMO.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I'm gonna get slammed for this, but try not to get hung up on crap like magnet material. I used nothing but ceramic forever, and avoided most Alnico 5 pickups because I'd used a few I didn't like. I recently got an Air Zone (which I'd avoided coz of the A5 thing), and I absolutely love it.
Like I said, don't get hung up on that stuff.
I'm gonna get slammed for this, but try not to get hung up on crap like magnet material. I used nothing but ceramic forever, and avoided most Alnico 5 pickups because I'd used a few I didn't like. I recently got an Air Zone (which I'd avoided coz of the A5 thing), and I absolutely love it.
Like I said, don't get hung up on that stuff.
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
no prob JB, just curious about how the magnet type affects the overall sound, personally I can't say i have a preference, if it works alnico or ceramic it works right ? but I guess there are some differences that pickup makers use to enhance any given design, keep it comin' fellas ...
no prob JB, just curious about how the magnet type affects the overall sound, personally I can't say i have a preference, if it works alnico or ceramic it works right ? but I guess there are some differences that pickup makers use to enhance any given design, keep it comin' fellas ...
BachToRock
New member
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I recently put an old Duncan Custom in a guitar for kicks... it is really a smokin pickup... very aggressive, but with a PAF-ish vintage vibe.
That said, I prefer Alnico, but Ceramic definitely has it's place and is ideal for more metal oriented tones like Ozzy, Priest, Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc...
The JB/Custom Hybrid I put together sounds excellent with either an A5 or the normal sized Ceramic from a Custom
I recently put an old Duncan Custom in a guitar for kicks... it is really a smokin pickup... very aggressive, but with a PAF-ish vintage vibe.
That said, I prefer Alnico, but Ceramic definitely has it's place and is ideal for more metal oriented tones like Ozzy, Priest, Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc...
The JB/Custom Hybrid I put together sounds excellent with either an A5 or the normal sized Ceramic from a Custom
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
Back in the early seventies, so many of us played Strats, largely influenced by one J Hendrix. Amps had no master volume controls. As the music of the day began to become heavier and more muscular, we needed to get more grunt from the strat, especially the bridge pickup. Companies like Mighty Mite and DiMarzio appeared and brought us hot replacement pickups. This allowed us to ram bigger signals into the front of our amps and get more....RAWK!!!! Many of these hot pickups were no doubt ceramic magnet jobbies.
However, some of us, myself included, noticed that this detracted from the original subtleties of our guitar's tone. As the years have gone by, amps have become more high gain and pickups have developed outward in more than one direction....those for high output and those seeking to capture elusive vintage tones. With the higher gain amps, it is now possible to use a small signal from the guitar, with plenty of the wood's subtle nuances, but still dial in a great big rock sound.
Now I can only generalise here as there are exceptions, but I would venture to say that largely, if someone is looking to set up a Tele or Strat or similar for the classic old sounds, they are quite likely to find themselves using Alnico magnet p/ups, whether they realise it or not. Conversely, if someone is building the metal sound of doom into an instrument, it is likely they could be using ceramic magnets. As I say, this is a generalisation, and other things come into play, like the coil windings of course.
I think that the state of play today is very good, that we often appreciate the acoustic qualities of our chosen plank of wood, and we are able to use lower output pickups to get that into our amps, and let the amps take more of the workload for getting the drive we want. That way we can have huge rock tones but still have the articulation and subtleties within that wall of rauch. It seems to me there has been a great resurgence of interest in Alnico in the last decade or so, in speakers as well as in pickups. We are all becoming much more knowledgeable (which is great but I wonder if sometimes it makes our lives harder! Ignorance WAS bliss!!...and cheaper....)
At the end of the day, it is the ear that counts....if our ear is pleased, we are happy, but it's nice to have places like this to read and learn and discuss, as the pickup trial/trail can become expensive....
Back in the early seventies, so many of us played Strats, largely influenced by one J Hendrix. Amps had no master volume controls. As the music of the day began to become heavier and more muscular, we needed to get more grunt from the strat, especially the bridge pickup. Companies like Mighty Mite and DiMarzio appeared and brought us hot replacement pickups. This allowed us to ram bigger signals into the front of our amps and get more....RAWK!!!! Many of these hot pickups were no doubt ceramic magnet jobbies.
However, some of us, myself included, noticed that this detracted from the original subtleties of our guitar's tone. As the years have gone by, amps have become more high gain and pickups have developed outward in more than one direction....those for high output and those seeking to capture elusive vintage tones. With the higher gain amps, it is now possible to use a small signal from the guitar, with plenty of the wood's subtle nuances, but still dial in a great big rock sound.
Now I can only generalise here as there are exceptions, but I would venture to say that largely, if someone is looking to set up a Tele or Strat or similar for the classic old sounds, they are quite likely to find themselves using Alnico magnet p/ups, whether they realise it or not. Conversely, if someone is building the metal sound of doom into an instrument, it is likely they could be using ceramic magnets. As I say, this is a generalisation, and other things come into play, like the coil windings of course.
I think that the state of play today is very good, that we often appreciate the acoustic qualities of our chosen plank of wood, and we are able to use lower output pickups to get that into our amps, and let the amps take more of the workload for getting the drive we want. That way we can have huge rock tones but still have the articulation and subtleties within that wall of rauch. It seems to me there has been a great resurgence of interest in Alnico in the last decade or so, in speakers as well as in pickups. We are all becoming much more knowledgeable (which is great but I wonder if sometimes it makes our lives harder! Ignorance WAS bliss!!...and cheaper....)
At the end of the day, it is the ear that counts....if our ear is pleased, we are happy, but it's nice to have places like this to read and learn and discuss, as the pickup trial/trail can become expensive....
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I just recently figured out how all this works (at least in my head), but magnets do change the character of a pickup greatly. A guitar pickup works because of the ferrous strings vibrating over a magnet/coil assembly, changing the magnetic field and generating a small electric current the same as a generator in a power plant does. The different magnets, produce a different magnetic field and will cause the generated signal to be different.
Ceramic seems to be very punchy and aggressive - I like these
Alnico V seems to be scooped with good bottom and upper mids and highs.
Alnico II seems to be not so punchy on the bottom, and smoother highs, kind of round to me. I like these alot.
I just recently figured out how all this works (at least in my head), but magnets do change the character of a pickup greatly. A guitar pickup works because of the ferrous strings vibrating over a magnet/coil assembly, changing the magnetic field and generating a small electric current the same as a generator in a power plant does. The different magnets, produce a different magnetic field and will cause the generated signal to be different.
Ceramic seems to be very punchy and aggressive - I like these
Alnico V seems to be scooped with good bottom and upper mids and highs.
Alnico II seems to be not so punchy on the bottom, and smoother highs, kind of round to me. I like these alot.
Xergey Zenandzen
New member
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I read,( i think it was Bill Lawrence......) that magnets have no inherent 'sound' but the magnetic design of a pickup ( usually cheaper types) is usually the factor in giving this different sound.What little i remember of the article, he mentioned that to design a magnetic circuit was much more difficult for ceramic/ferrite magnets & not many take the trouble to design it well (makes me think of those cheapo strat pickups you see with not much more than a fridge magnet glued to the underside).
Please don't scream at me.....i just thought this may contribute to the ideas bouncing around here & i am yet to form my own opinion except to say i personally prefer alnico .
I read,( i think it was Bill Lawrence......) that magnets have no inherent 'sound' but the magnetic design of a pickup ( usually cheaper types) is usually the factor in giving this different sound.What little i remember of the article, he mentioned that to design a magnetic circuit was much more difficult for ceramic/ferrite magnets & not many take the trouble to design it well (makes me think of those cheapo strat pickups you see with not much more than a fridge magnet glued to the underside).
Please don't scream at me.....i just thought this may contribute to the ideas bouncing around here & i am yet to form my own opinion except to say i personally prefer alnico .
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
I respect Bill and his opinions, but I just don't agree with that one. Hear hear the differences between magnets all one has to do is compare the tones of the Custom, Custom Custom, and C5...that said it might be more related to gauss than anything else.
By the way Xergey, welcome to the forum. We don't scream at people here, don't worry.
Luke
Xergey Zenandzen said:
I respect Bill and his opinions, but I just don't agree with that one. Hear hear the differences between magnets all one has to do is compare the tones of the Custom, Custom Custom, and C5...that said it might be more related to gauss than anything else.
By the way Xergey, welcome to the forum. We don't scream at people here, don't worry.
Luke
danglybanger
ReelItInologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
...great post there crusty :smokin:
I kind of stopped seeing the point in needing superhot pickups behind modern amps... just means you have to roll down the volume alot to get anything clean to come out
slade
...great post there crusty :smokin:
I kind of stopped seeing the point in needing superhot pickups behind modern amps... just means you have to roll down the volume alot to get anything clean to come out
slade
W
WGTP
Guest
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
BachtoRock, how does the Alnico V sound compared to the Ceramic in the JB/DC hybrid?
BachtoRock, how does the Alnico V sound compared to the Ceramic in the JB/DC hybrid?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
It's great to see the progress we have made with our knowledge over the years, but in a way it's also becoming a bit of a burden....as now we can mix and match coils and magnet types to really try to zone in on a sound or create a new one. Also now we can get alnico speakers and there is a trend back to tube rectifiers in some areas as well. I build amps and i have noticed that high output (often ceramic) pickups can be too much for tube rectified amps and can really 'mush out', as can lower powered speakers, though those qualities are exactly what you may want for that vintage sound on a more traditional instrument or set of pickups.
Sometimes I like to think of the pickup as being like a microphone in the studio....lets say that in the studio, you have a good mixer and recording medium, whether it be a tape machine or a computer. You are going to record someone with a great voice, or a piano or another instrument. So....they are givens....now we head to the mic cabinet to get some mics......and whichever one we try, we will hear differences, some big, some more subtle. Some will suit the male voice better than thee female voice, or the strong voice over the softer voice....etc....
Now.....in our guitar world.....we have our guitar and amp as the given factors, just as the studio has it's subject to record and it's recording gear. There, the microphone is the interface between the two: in our rigs, the pickup is the interface between the guitar and the amp. If we have a guitar with some definite acoustic qualities, we can vary how we collect those qualities and present them to our amp. There is a huge range of microphones out there, and there is a huge range of guitar pickups. This is where things can get difficult, in that we can present ourselves these days with so many options, we can get lost in a sea of good sounds, never quite able to settle with something because there is always the lure to just try another....
You know it's funny, I have read a lot about microphones, but i don't remember issues of magnet types ever being brought up....I would also like to say that i think it's fantastic that we have come so far since those days of the early seventies where you could keep your vintage sound or hot it up and sacrifice the tone for rock....to this point where we can fine tune in an educated way, and we spend much time and money doing so, and have educated our ears immensely...but....then we go out and play in noisy bars and i often do wonder.....is there anyone out there listening, thinking....'wow, that A5 magnet sounds good'.....I'm sure we do a lot of this for ourselves, but hey, once you have the bug and can hear the differences.......see you at the pickup store !!!
It's great to see the progress we have made with our knowledge over the years, but in a way it's also becoming a bit of a burden....as now we can mix and match coils and magnet types to really try to zone in on a sound or create a new one. Also now we can get alnico speakers and there is a trend back to tube rectifiers in some areas as well. I build amps and i have noticed that high output (often ceramic) pickups can be too much for tube rectified amps and can really 'mush out', as can lower powered speakers, though those qualities are exactly what you may want for that vintage sound on a more traditional instrument or set of pickups.
Sometimes I like to think of the pickup as being like a microphone in the studio....lets say that in the studio, you have a good mixer and recording medium, whether it be a tape machine or a computer. You are going to record someone with a great voice, or a piano or another instrument. So....they are givens....now we head to the mic cabinet to get some mics......and whichever one we try, we will hear differences, some big, some more subtle. Some will suit the male voice better than thee female voice, or the strong voice over the softer voice....etc....
Now.....in our guitar world.....we have our guitar and amp as the given factors, just as the studio has it's subject to record and it's recording gear. There, the microphone is the interface between the two: in our rigs, the pickup is the interface between the guitar and the amp. If we have a guitar with some definite acoustic qualities, we can vary how we collect those qualities and present them to our amp. There is a huge range of microphones out there, and there is a huge range of guitar pickups. This is where things can get difficult, in that we can present ourselves these days with so many options, we can get lost in a sea of good sounds, never quite able to settle with something because there is always the lure to just try another....
You know it's funny, I have read a lot about microphones, but i don't remember issues of magnet types ever being brought up....I would also like to say that i think it's fantastic that we have come so far since those days of the early seventies where you could keep your vintage sound or hot it up and sacrifice the tone for rock....to this point where we can fine tune in an educated way, and we spend much time and money doing so, and have educated our ears immensely...but....then we go out and play in noisy bars and i often do wonder.....is there anyone out there listening, thinking....'wow, that A5 magnet sounds good'.....I'm sure we do a lot of this for ourselves, but hey, once you have the bug and can hear the differences.......see you at the pickup store !!!
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Xergey Zenandzen
New member
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
Has anyone tried rare earth (neodimium) magnets & what sound do they present?
(thanks for the welcome Luke)
Has anyone tried rare earth (neodimium) magnets & what sound do they present?
(thanks for the welcome Luke)
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
One of the mistakes being made here is assuming that ceramic is pretty much interchangeable with Alnico.
Ceramic isn't a 'good' or 'bad' magnet, but more of a niche magnet. It has three basic uses in the guitar world:
1) Cheap Strat style pickups for low budget Strats or Teles -- because ceramic magnets are very cheap. The combination of ceramic magnets and vintage Strat/Tele winds is a pretty lousy tone recipe, but we're talkin' cheapo here, so who cares...
2) High output pickups -- Ceramics are often necessary to inject some treble back into the midrange-heavy winds of 14k+ pickups. I've found Alnico 6 to be a viable option in cases when ceramics sound too harsh even in this range, but for some of the REALLY high output pu's, like over 16k, there's just no substitute for ceramic.
3) Bass pickups -- The very harshness that often irritates guitar players is a plus in bass pickups to give you that funky snappy tone for funk bass.
Ceramic really doesn't have any use in mid to lower output pickups which are plenty bright on their own. Vintage wind + ceramic = pickup that will slice a tank in half.
One of the mistakes being made here is assuming that ceramic is pretty much interchangeable with Alnico.
Ceramic isn't a 'good' or 'bad' magnet, but more of a niche magnet. It has three basic uses in the guitar world:
1) Cheap Strat style pickups for low budget Strats or Teles -- because ceramic magnets are very cheap. The combination of ceramic magnets and vintage Strat/Tele winds is a pretty lousy tone recipe, but we're talkin' cheapo here, so who cares...
2) High output pickups -- Ceramics are often necessary to inject some treble back into the midrange-heavy winds of 14k+ pickups. I've found Alnico 6 to be a viable option in cases when ceramics sound too harsh even in this range, but for some of the REALLY high output pu's, like over 16k, there's just no substitute for ceramic.
3) Bass pickups -- The very harshness that often irritates guitar players is a plus in bass pickups to give you that funky snappy tone for funk bass.
Ceramic really doesn't have any use in mid to lower output pickups which are plenty bright on their own. Vintage wind + ceramic = pickup that will slice a tank in half.
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
Neo's are extremely strong and not of much use in pickups -- although I've heard of some experimental designs using really, really tiny ones. But a regular size magnet made of newo would just about pull the string flat against the pickup, and satellites down from space.
I have a couple of neo disks that I have in a vise facing each other for charging other magnets. That's how strong they are.
Xergey Zenandzen said:
Neo's are extremely strong and not of much use in pickups -- although I've heard of some experimental designs using really, really tiny ones. But a regular size magnet made of newo would just about pull the string flat against the pickup, and satellites down from space.
I have a couple of neo disks that I have in a vise facing each other for charging other magnets. That's how strong they are.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: alnico vs ceramic, pros and cons ?
Alnico mags can be recharged very easily though, so it's not mcuh of a problem.
Alnico mags can be recharged very easily though, so it's not mcuh of a problem.
