alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

[drew_half_empty]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

um, i think 1/8" is standard, atleast whenever i go to radioshack I get 1/8" plugs & yeah, they always seemed more like 1/4 though

and I was planning to run in the 200 watt range, so eh

plus the extra EQ will be nice, if nothing else

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=DCM1001&CID= $370 aint crap, I'd go for lesser wattage, but they only make ones with EQ that high

 

[some_dude]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

First of all, you DON'T need 300 watts of SS power. My current guitar rig uses a Marshall 8008 which is a solid state power amp. It puts out 80 watts a side, and even that is overkill. QSC makes a single rack space PA, I think the 1810, which puts out about 75 watts at 4 ohms, but I've run it with an 8-ohm stereo cab with no problems forever, so it was putting out around 35-40 per side, which is a god's plenty.

Depends on what you're doing I guess. I have a 75w ss amp and I can't even hear it over a tube amp playing next to me. Not to mention that above 6 or 7 it starts to thin out and becomes harsh to the ears, so I doubt I've ever gotten a full 75w out of it.

Besides, you guys are looking at this all wrong....and some of you should know better. With tube, since you want to overdrive the power amp slightly it's best to get only what you need. With SS, it sounds like ass overdriven, so you want much more power handling than you actually need. If you only want 75w, you're better off with a 150w amp.

drew_half_empty is saying that his 100w tube amp isn't loud enough.....and now you guys are trying to tell him that an amp pushing out 35-40w a side is more than enough...just because it works for you!!?!?! Did you forget to take into account what he's after? Or are you simply assuming that because it works in your application and in your circumstances it'll work for his?

What I'm saying is that if he having a hard time being heard, he's better off with atleast a 300w amp.....that way, when he pushes 200w out of it it won't be distorted like a 200w amp would (can you guys see the logic there?). Personally, I wouldn't gig anything less than a 500w....I'd rather know I have too much and leave the amp on less than half than have the amp dimed wishing I had more.

Just my opinion.

 

[tone4days]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

i have a carvin dcm 600 and am very happy with it .. it is HELLA quiet and HELLA loud .. "all the way off" is at "7o'clock" and "full blast" is at "5 o'clock" .. i have never had it past 9 o'clock

good luck
t4d

 

[Jag513]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

What I'm saying is that if he having a hard time being heard, he's better off with atleast a 300w amp.....that way, when he pushes 200w out of it it won't be distorted like a 200w amp would (can you guys see the logic there, or do I need to type slower?). Personally, I wouldn't gig anything less than a 500w....I'd rather know I have too much and leave the amp on less than half than have the amp dimed wishing I had more.

Just my opinion.

That's the way I feel too. You guys have got to realize that this is solid state and not tube. For tube there is overkill, because you want to turn it up. For solid state there is no overkill, because you don't want to turn it up. Frankly 1000w is a bit much (I'll agree on that much), but 300w seems perfectly reasonable to me. Hell he's not getting enough power from a tube head! (BTW is it 50w or 100w? Either way!) The only time when solid state overkill becomes an issue is in price. He said he's willing to pay $500, and he's found some good stuff under $500. The problem comes when he says he's willing to pay $500 and someone shows him a $900 6764131w power amp and says that he'll need that. But for the most part posters here have been pretty logical in their choices and recommendations IMO.

Edit: And Drew, that Carvin looks like a good choice. Is there anywhere you could try it out first, or would you order online?

 

[RiffRaff]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Or, if you want to retain that analog tube sound check out a Carvin TS100 tube power amp they run aournd $500, rackmount, EL34 or 6L6 tubes - very neutral with 6L6's.

I use a Peavey classic 50/50 stereo tube power amp in my rack, great analog tube sound that blends nicely with my amp modeling preamp, I paid a little over $200 for it used. Plenty loud - I use it with a 2x12 cabinet and for all but the largest hall my volume is never over three.

All of these amps have selectable impedence switches so no need to fiddle with your cabinet. Most SS power amps can be set of 2/4/8/16 ohms as well.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

100 tube watts isn't enough

the bassman is 50, and another 3db won't mean crap

thank you daisy, you have become my new friend on the board, heh

as far as the power amp, I'm planning to run it at about 225-250 watts, since my cab is 300. I'd go for a lesser wattage one but like i said, i may need the EQ, and theres no way to try them out, so, eh

$370 isn't much anyways

 

[Jag513]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Well if you get another cab, say a 4x12, you could run both the Bassman through the 2x12 and a tube power amp through a 4x12. You'll still keep your tube power amp tone that way.

But that might be a bit too much to take to gigs.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

100 tube watts isn't enough

the bassman is 50, and another 3db won't mean crap

thank you daisy, you have become my new friend on the board, heh

as far as the power amp, I'm planning to run it at about 225-250 watts, since my cab is 300. I'd go for a lesser wattage one but like i said, i may need the EQ, and theres no way to try them out, so, eh

$370 isn't much anyways

100 tube watts isn't enough? Try a Marshall 1959 SLP on for size. 100 tube watts, and enough power to rock a stadium.

If you really want your bassman to make your pant legs flap, get a fender twin OT. You'd get much more power and bass response out to the speakers.

 

[FretFire]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

100 tube watts isn't enough

Are you playing stadiums? Seriously, for the size of gigs you're likely playing, if that's not enough you guys need to TURN DOWN!

 

[y2stevo]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Are you playing stadiums? Seriously, for the size of gigs you're likely playing, if that's not enough you guys need to TURN DOWN!

ROFL!!! Ditto.
dang, a friggin 50watt would easily do a stadium :laugh2:

 

[aleclee]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Don't forget to budget for earplugs.

I must be getting old 'cause I'm not joking.

 

[Hellion]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Ya know, I think you need to add speakers instead of worrying about wattage. The bottom line is that a watt is a watt. There's no real difference between tube watts and SS watts. The amps respond differently, that's all. But in order to get more volume, you need to move more air. What about adding another 412 cabinet?

 

[some_dude]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

100 tube watts isn't enough? Try a Marshall 1959 SLP on for size. 100 tube watts, and enough power to rock a stadium.

If you really want your bassman to make your pant legs flap, get a fender twin OT. You'd get much more power and bass response out to the speakers.

I think he's looking for budget options.....buying a Plexi and/or replacing the tranny aren't exactly budget.

 

[some_dude]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

Ya know, I think you need to add speakers instead of worrying about wattage. The bottom line is that a watt is a watt. There's no real difference between tube watts and SS watts. The amps respond differently, that's all. But in order to get more volume, you need to move more air. What about adding another 412 cabinet?

True. Adding speakers is almost as effective as adding wattage, and your sound spreads better.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

well a new tranny costs about 130 bucks and that's a premium mercury magnetics axiom fender twin reverb OT. If he plans on getting a 500 dollar PA, but the new tranny would really help him crank out alot more efficiency and volume, and give him selectable impedences so he could hook up a 4 ohm, 8 ohm or 16 ohm cab i think its a deal.

If he gets the twin reverb OT and wires the ext. speaker output to the 8 ohm terminal and the regular speaker output to the 4 ohm terminal he could have much more speaker flexibility. ie-he could get a 4x12 cab at 4 ohms and use that for larger gigs, but for practices etc, he could simply use his current 2x12 setup.

bigger OT, plus impedence selection, plus more speakers=loads more volume, sound spread and saved cash.

4x12 cab from avatar-$388
Fender twin OT from mercury mags-$130-$160

vs.

$500 budget PA
another $500 or so for more speakers, dummy load etc.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

I think he's looking for budget options.....buying a Plexi and/or replacing the tranny aren't exactly budget.

I was giving an example of how loud 100 watts of tube power are.

Decent fender twin trannies cost 80-90 bucks. premium replica trannies that sound as good as the originals from mercury magnetics cost around 140. A new tranny and speakers could help get more dB, which is what drew was asking for.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

um, i think 1/8" is standard, atleast whenever i go to radioshack I get 1/8" plugs & yeah, they always seemed more like 1/4 though

and I was planning to run in the 200 watt range, so eh

plus the extra EQ will be nice, if nothing else

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=DCM1001&CID= $370 aint crap, I'd go for lesser wattage, but they only make ones with EQ that high

last time i checked all of my speaker cables and patch cables were 1/4 inch, as are all standard sized guitar amp inputs and speaker outputs. You shouldn't have any problems adaptor-wise as the carvin has all 1/4 inch terminals, as do dummy loads and your bassman 50.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

well lets put it this way

my drummer plays over a 5150 through a 4x12 easily

this is just for live situations, for recording i won't use the PA, i don't wanna haul 3 cabs around, I'm already gonna get another 2x12

and i don't wanna change the OT cuz then i'd hafta REALLY crank it to get good tone at home

the PA is only $370, adding a preamp out shouldn't be more than $50

but i don't wanna haul my 1x12, so can anyone tell me how to rig a dummy load, or where to get a cheap one?

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

drew_half_empty is saying that his 100w tube amp isn't loud enough

Doesn't sound to me like drew_half_empty needs a new amp, it sounds like he needs to check out an ear specialist to find out how why his ears aren't perceiving volume the way normal people do.

15w tube is freakin' loud cranked. 100w tube is insane opened up all the way as it is (I thought I was going to die from that force). You gotta be asking yourself why in God's name would you need anything more than that. Your next door neighbors, bandmates and sound guys loathe you I'm sure :laugh2:

Somehow I forsee a 200w tube Marshall Major in your future drew_half_empty

 

[FretFire]

Re: alright rackmount guys, educate me on power amps

well lets put it this way

my drummer plays over a 5150 through a 4x12 easily

Then you need a different drummer, one that doesn't beat the hell out of his kit. Harder does not equal better.