Alternative to stock emg het set in ESP arrow

[JediMasterThrash]

The ESP arrow (alder, maple neck thru, ebony fretboard) comes with a stock EMG Het Set active pups.

I've never had active pups before. Based solely on youtube videos I've never been a fan of EMG actives sound (lacking color/life, sterile). Hetfield himself has some terrible guitar tone (Though I'm sure that's mainly from his rig, not the pups).

I was thinking of trying blackouts, but someone told me they're basically parity with the EMGs so not really an upgrade. My other active option is fishman moderns.
I'm straight tuning and 80's metal, not downtuned and not djent. So also not sure if the fishmans are the right choice.

There's also a confusing amount of fishman signatures. I browed the vids on all of them, the Javier Reyes and Will Alder being the ones I liked the most.

I could also just replace them with passives. But then that gets me down the worse rabbit hole. There's only about 200 options.

I want crushing low-mids and an open top-end, bell-like without razorblades. Something that "snarls" and delivers a wall of sound. Not djent, more full range.
Neck pickup can't go wrong with something akin to a paf-pro but maybe a bit more aggressive.

Sure classic metal is my main tone, I got holydivers and tonezones on other guitars. But for this guitar going for something more wild and snarling. And of course pinch harmonics galore.

 

[Seashore]

I don't think actives are going to give you the kind of feel you want. But have you tried them in that guitar yet? You won't really know until you try it with your own setup.

I can say that the Fishman Moderns have not been able to give me "wild and snarling" in any of the 3 guitars or different tunings I've tried them with. I think I look for similar tones to what you're describing and the Fishmans just aren't there. They are articulate, compressed, flexible, and too polite for my taste. Open top end coupled with impact is something I associate more with BKPs than anything else.

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[Rex_Rocker]

I don't think actives are going to give you the kind of feel you want. But have you tried them in that guitar yet? You won't really know until you try it with your own setup.

I can say that the Fishman Moderns have not been able to give me "wild and snarling" in any of the 3 guitars or different tunings I've tried them with. I think I look for similar tones to what you're describing and the Fishmans just aren't there. They are articulate, compressed, flexible, and too polite for my taste. Open top end coupled with impact is something I associate more with BKPs than anything else.

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The Adlers are different. They're really great. Voice 1 is like a lower output, cleaner Duncan Distortion. But Voice 2 is just plain the same as Voice 1 on the Moderns, you're right.

Honestly, for what the OP wants, I'd just recommend the plain old Duncan Distortion set. Or maybe Custom/something.

 

[Masta' C]

We need a "putting the cart before the horse" emoji, ha ha!

OP, I think you need to give the stock Het Set a try. You may not like Hetfield's general "tone", but the Het set is solid and will probably give you most of what you're looking for in the Arrow. IMO, it's a bit shortsighted to just write them off without trying them.

Same thing could be said for basing your assumptions about "EMG tone" on YouTube videos alone. Plus, if you end up not liking the Hets, there's a decent chance you won't like the Fishman Moderns either. Blackouts are voiced quite differently and not everyone digs those either.

In the end, we can't really give good recommendations on a replacement set until we know what is and isn't working for you. Give the Hets a try and report back!

 

[Top-L]

I got a guitar with EMG 57/66tw set and they very much surprised me. They sound "passive" but they have more clarity and openness than passives with that much output. So they end up being quite versatile. Dont know if they have "crushing lows", but I'm sure there are some metal players using them.

Since you already have the EMG wiring harness, I woiuld check them out.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

And IMO, Hetfield's best tone was with EMG 81's, personally. But his tone nowadays does blow balls. Thin, undergained, and scratchy.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Also, I've had the Hets, and they're nice. They're fatter and hotter than the 81/60, but not they're not as tubby/loose as the Duncan Blackouts. They are as hot, though.

 

[JediMasterThrash]

I just have the opportunity before the guitar ships the shop said they'd swap pups for me (since it would require extensive re-wiring), as they too suggested the only possibly downside to the guitar was the stock pups.

I don't have much experience with SDs. Mostly I've used DMz and BKP. I'm not sure if the whole "SD has a unique sound from DM" is just internet babble or if there really is a typical difference.

I've got an X2N + Paf Pro combo in the guitar this is replacing. The X2N has that noise wild sound (though I have to back the volume knob 25% or it clips my input buffer). And the paf pro is that perfect eric-johnson tone (only in a humbucker).

And I replaced d-activators with those. Part of me is like I could just try the d-activators or the x2n/pafpro. But keep thinking I should try out some SDs again.

BPK wise, maybe a miracle man bridge with a cold sweat neck would be the equivalent.

I was recommended something like an SD invader/sentient combo for an SD option. But I feel the invader might be too "modern".

Even though I love the paf pro, I hear the actual "paf" is a completely unrelated beast, so pups that just describe as "paf-like" probably aren't right for my neck.

 

[Seashore]

I was recommended something like an SD invader/sentient combo for an SD option. But I feel the invader might be too "modern".

The Invader doesn't sound modern to my ears. Mid-heavy and compressed in a way, but not djenty. Great pickup in a bright guitar. The trick with the bridge pickup (for what I want) is to back it a bit farther away from the strings than I do for any of my other pickups. The one thing I miss with the Invader through my setup is a bit of crunch, but when I recorded with it, I wound up using an EQ in front of the amp just to boost the high mids a bit, and that got me what I wanted.

It's going to be different through every amp though. I use a Fryette (VHT) Pittbull and it really takes well to being hit with a high mid spike, while other people with other amps seem to hate it. Anyway the invaders are cool pickups, the neck is good as well.

Edit

If you want to hear an Invader, here's a demo tune with guitar and programmed drums from earlier this year. All the guitar parts are a Schecter E1 with an Invader through the Pittbull, miked with an SM7B, no plugins. Tuned to drop B.

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https://on.soundcloud.com/P9N5y

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I've never A/B'd the X2N with the Invader, but I don't think the X2N is that much darker and bassier than the Invader. From recent memory, the X2N is the darkest hum I've tried (with the exception maybe of the Hot Rails), but it's been ages since I've spent any time with an Invader.

 

[JediMasterThrash]

I've never A/B'd the X2N with the Invader, but I don't think the X2N is that much darker and bassier than the Invader. From recent memory, the X2N is the darkest hum I've tried (with the exception maybe of the Hot Rails), but it's been ages since I've spent any time with an Invader.

So it's not just me. I typically run a tone zone into a tight engl s. I EQ the lows up 3db on my MXR ZWCB. But whenever i plug in my X2N I gotta flip that dial to -6db on the bass or it's too flubby.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

So it's not just me. I typically run a tone zone into a tight engl s. I EQ the lows up 3db on my MXR ZWCB. But whenever i plug in my X2N I gotta flip that dial to -6db on the bass or it's too flubby.

Yeah. That pickup isn't my thing. I originally got it thinking it would be bright and crisp like Chuck Schuldiner's tone, but it wasnt. But it makes sense, it's got A LOT of metal in the blades and then the high-ish DCR and the brass baseplate.

 

[JediMasterThrash]

Not to worried about mid boost needs since I have plenty of ODs.The tone control on a guitar is pretty much useless as the low-pass is so broad. So just getting a more precise lowpass and a little 60hz tightnening on the OD is all you need. channel 3 gain though a strong mid boost from the xotic bb+MB does make a sweet tone. It's amazing how terrible a mid-boosted tone sounds on cleaner or low gain though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It's a balancing act for me. I like middy overdrives, V30's or Greenbacks, and SM57s. I also play Les Pauls, so I have no issues "cutting through". But I do think sometimes the whole "you need mids to cut through" is a bit overblown these days. Not to say you don't. A Recto with the mids on 0 sounds terrible, but so does a 5150 with the mids above like 11:00-11:30, and those seem to be the forum-friendly default settings for a 5150 (6-6-6) if you wanna be like the cool kids these days.

 

[Masta' C]

I just have the opportunity before the guitar ships the shop said they'd swap pups for me (since it would require extensive re-wiring), as they too suggested the only possibly downside to the guitar was the stock pups.

Someone at the shop said the Het Set would be a "downside" of that guitar? Wow. ESP must be idiots for thinking they could get away putting such crappy pickups into such a nice guitar!

They're probably offering to swap them out because the dude at the shop wants the Hets for his own guitar...LOL! :lmao:

 

[JediMasterThrash]

To each their own. I personally can't comprehend how any guitar 1k+ is still being built with bolt-on neck, nickel frets, and 1000-series floyds. Like if I find a cool guitar at a pawn shop for 200$ I don't care. But if I'm spending 1k+ I don't think they should skimp on the little stuff. But as someone who's never really cared to deal with picking up a guitar and having to care with whether the batteries are dead before I can play it, active pups have often been an immediate turn-off as well.

 

[Masta' C]

To each their own. I personally can't comprehend how any guitar 1k+ is still being built with bolt-on neck, nickel frets, and 1000-series floyds. Like if I find a cool guitar at a pawn shop for 200$ I don't care. But if I'm spending 1k+ I don't think they should skimp on the little stuff. But as someone who's never really cared to deal with picking up a guitar and having to care with whether the batteries are dead before I can play it, active pups have often been an immediate turn-off as well.

Well, you're bringing up completely different points.

I guess active pickups simply aren't for you based on principle, not because of experience or because they don't fit your tonal needs. But, as you said, to each their own.

Some good alternatives have already been suggested. Please do report back with what you decide to go with and how everything turns out. Good luck!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I like bolt-on guitars. I've owned more good-sounding bolt-on guitars than neck-thrus.

I agree about the lousy trem.

I don't know about the nickel frets. I've never tried SS, but I've always been fine with nickel frets. I have never really owned a guitar more than like... what... 5 or 6 years, so I don't know in the long run. But never have I felt the need to refret one onf my guitars. Some guitars with nickel frets are better than others too. I don't play mi Epi as much as do my Gibson, and the Epi is starting to show signs of wear, while the Gibson not as much.

And honestly, it's really hard to say, but 1K doesn't really buy you a truly high-end guitar at all these days. Not in the new market, at least.

 

[Juanhanglo]

I got a guitar with EMG 57/66tw set and they very much surprised me. They sound "passive" but they have more clarity and openness than passives with that much output. So they end up being quite versatile. Dont know if they have "crushing lows", but I'm sure there are some metal players using them.

Since you already have the EMG wiring harness, I woiuld check them out.

i installed these as "oem" in my latest parts creation.

They were my first foray into full actives (i do have a clapton circuit in my strat), and I absolutely love them.

The singles coil sounds are especially good. I use them more than the humbucker ones.

they feel very oassive to me.

All that is needed is eq them properly. Don't just use the same passive one.

emgs remind me of lace pickups, which is ok, because i like those too.

 

[Top-L]

I just have the opportunity before the guitar ships the shop said they'd swap pups for me (since it would require extensive re-wiring), as they too suggested the only possibly downside to the guitar was the stock pups.

I don't have much experience with SDs. Mostly I've used DMz and BKP. I'm not sure if the whole "SD has a unique sound from DM" is just internet babble or if there really is a typical difference.

I've got an X2N + Paf Pro combo in the guitar this is replacing. The X2N has that noise wild sound (though I have to back the volume knob 25% or it clips my input buffer). And the paf pro is that perfect eric-johnson tone (only in a humbucker).

And I replaced d-activators with those. Part of me is like I could just try the d-activators or the x2n/pafpro. But keep thinking I should try out some SDs again.

BPK wise, maybe a miracle man bridge with a cold sweat neck would be the equivalent.

I was recommended something like an SD invader/sentient combo for an SD option. But I feel the invader might be too "modern".

Even though I love the paf pro, I hear the actual "paf" is a completely unrelated beast, so pups that just describe as "paf-like" probably aren't right for my neck.

I would say that Dimarzios typically are more bass heavy than SDs. And they have the dual-peak resonance (mismatched coils) patent for a while although I guess all brands can build those now.

If you like the Dimarzio really hot pickups, try a D-Activator X. I was impressed with that one.