Am I the only one...VH content

[the guy who invented fire]

Am I the only guy here that simply thinks that the famed early VH tone is just not that hard to obtain?????

I mean, come on...get a PAF a Strat a 4 hole Marshall, some Greenbacks and a few choice smaller pieces...variac, etc and you're there!!!

The PAF into the Marshall plexi is 85% of the tone right there...just crank the amp. It is well known that Ed ran his amps flat out...all knobs on 10, do that with almost any guitar loaded wiht a PAF and you'll find a large part of the tone. Add a quad of Greenbacks (20 watters if ya got 'em) and thats another 5%. Hook up a variac and drop your like voltage doen to 9 or so and thats another 5%, after that add a few chioce effects...the tape echo (univox or Maestro, take yer pick) a few non true bypass MXR pedals (flanger and phase 90) and thats it...yer there, home run!!!

Anything else involved in the Brown Sound is either Ed as a player or was done by Ted Templeman on the other side of the mic...

All that crap about what kind of wood the guitar was made of, the paint, the pickup, the weather out side the day of the recording, the humidity in the studio, etc, etc, etc is just that...CRAP!

The single biggest thing that prevents guys fromnailing the brown sound is one of 2 things...they simply can't afford a Plexi or they simply can't turn it up!

 

[Holy Diver]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

Am I the only guy here that simply thinks that the famed early VH tone is just not that hard to obtain?????

I mean, come on...get a PAF a Strat a 4 hole Marshall, some Greenbacks and a few choice smaller pieces...variac, etc and you're there!!!

The PAF into the Marshall plexi is 85% of the tone right there...just crank the amp. It is well known that Ed ran his amps flat out...all knobs on 10, do that with almost any guitar loaded wiht a PAF and you'll find a large part of the tone. Add a quad of Greenbacks (20 watters if ya got 'em) and thats another 5%. Hook up a variac and drop your like voltage doen to 9 or so and thats another 5%, after that add a few chioce effects...the tape echo (univox or Maestro, take yer pick) a few non true bypass MXR pedals (flanger and phase 90) and thats it...yer there, home run!!!

Anything else involved in the Brown Sound is either Ed as a player or was done by Ted Templeman on the other side of the mic...

All that crap about what kind of wood the guitar was made of, the paint, the pickup, the weather out side the day of the recording, the humidity in the studio, etc, etc, etc is just that...CRAP!

The single biggest thing that prevents guys fromnailing the brown sound is one of 2 things...they simply can't afford a Plexi or they simply can't turn it up!

I guess you are right, but I never thought it was hard to obtain anyway, and I was not looking to try. I have the JVM head, and I can pretty much get any tone I need, period.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I am totally with you Christian. I think it can be nailed with any number of commercially available fuzz boxes as well. The thing everyone forgets IMO is that ed just did "whatever" it was to get the sound. He wasn't a pup snob like we are. He used what he had and did whaqtever he needed to do. Slap a PAF in the strat and work any sort of hot rodded Marshall and there ya go.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I have found the hardest thing to get right is the reverb and delay combination. Otherwise I have gotten convincing VH tones from the Dimarzio PAF, PAF Pro and the SD Pearly Gates.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

The Marshall (PP) is full of guys who have nailed that sound, and most with little effort.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

am i the only guy here that simply thinks that the famed early vh tone is just not that hard to obtain?????

I mean, come on...get a paf a strat a 4 hole marshall, some greenbacks and a few choice smaller pieces...variac, etc and you're there!!!

The paf into the marshall plexi is 85% of the tone right there...just crank the amp. It is well known that ed ran his amps flat out...all knobs on 10, do that with almost any guitar loaded wiht a paf and you'll find a large part of the tone. Add a quad of greenbacks (20 watters if ya got 'em) and thats another 5%. Hook up a variac and drop your like voltage doen to 9 or so and thats another 5%, after that add a few chioce effects...the tape echo (univox or maestro, take yer pick) a few non true bypass mxr pedals (flanger and phase 90) and thats it...yer there, home run!!!

Anything else involved in the brown sound is either ed as a player or was done by ted templeman on the other side of the mic...

All that crap about what kind of wood the guitar was made of, the paint, the pickup, the weather out side the day of the recording, the humidity in the studio, etc, etc, etc is just that...crap!

The single biggest thing that prevents guys fromnailing the brown sound is one of 2 things...they simply can't afford a plexi or they simply can't turn it up!

+1

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I am totally with you Christian. I think it can be nailed with any number of commercially available fuzz boxes as well. The thing everyone forgets IMO is that ed just did "whatever" it was to get the sound. He wasn't a pup snob like we are. He used what he had and did whaqtever he needed to do. Slap a PAF in the strat and work any sort of hot rodded Marshall and there ya go.

Definitely, I like your approach. I think that a Proco Rat can give that basic sort of sound pretty easily if its filter knob is turned up a bit. The low-pass filter tone control is really useful for this. It can roll off a lot of the bright harmonic distortion, leaving a clear, smooth, darker tone that's still high-gain. That's just one way to get it, though. Rolling some of these frequencies off in the effects loop of a Marshall or similar amp would be another way.

 

[viewaskew2k5]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

+1. Its not about the gear you use, but how you use it!!! Hell, i can get the tone from my Dot, EL84 5w amp + a ts9 and bad monkey.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

how to get van halen tones through oddball(ish) gear??
my sg(pg 8 bridge)>mxr classic distortion with level and distortion 3/4 up and tone straight up>peavey windsor with mids notched slightly, preamp at 3, and a good bit of volume to work the tubes.

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

Am I the only guy here that simply thinks that the famed early VH tone is just not that hard to obtain?????

I mean, come on...get a PAF a Strat a 4 hole Marshall, some Greenbacks and a few choice smaller pieces...variac, etc and you're there!!!

The PAF into the Marshall plexi is 85% of the tone right there...just crank the amp. It is well known that Ed ran his amps flat out...all knobs on 10, do that with almost any guitar loaded wiht a PAF and you'll find a large part of the tone. Add a quad of Greenbacks (20 watters if ya got 'em) and thats another 5%. Hook up a variac and drop your like voltage doen to 9 or so and thats another 5%, after that add a few chioce effects...the tape echo (univox or Maestro, take yer pick) a few non true bypass MXR pedals (flanger and phase 90) and thats it...yer there, home run!!!

Anything else involved in the Brown Sound is either Ed as a player or was done by Ted Templeman on the other side of the mic...

All that crap about what kind of wood the guitar was made of, the paint, the pickup, the weather out side the day of the recording, the humidity in the studio, etc, etc, etc is just that...CRAP!

The single biggest thing that prevents guys fromnailing the brown sound is one of 2 things...they simply can't afford a Plexi or they simply can't turn it up!

You are absolutely right, sir! I can get VH tones even with my tele and laney :yeah:

 

[Joeyfingers]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

Am I the only guy here that simply thinks that the famed early VH tone is just not that hard to obtain?????

I mean, come on...get a PAF a Strat a 4 hole Marshall, some Greenbacks and a few choice smaller pieces...variac, etc and you're there!!!

The PAF into the Marshall plexi is 85% of the tone right there...just crank the amp. It is well known that Ed ran his amps flat out...all knobs on 10, do that with almost any guitar loaded wiht a PAF and you'll find a large part of the tone. Add a quad of Greenbacks (20 watters if ya got 'em) and thats another 5%. Hook up a variac and drop your like voltage doen to 9 or so and thats another 5%, after that add a few chioce effects...the tape echo (univox or Maestro, take yer pick) a few non true bypass MXR pedals (flanger and phase 90) and thats it...yer there, home run!!!

Anything else involved in the Brown Sound is either Ed as a player or was done by Ted Templeman on the other side of the mic...

All that crap about what kind of wood the guitar was made of, the paint, the pickup, the weather out side the day of the recording, the humidity in the studio, etc, etc, etc is just that...CRAP!

The single biggest thing that prevents guys fromnailing the brown sound is one of 2 things...they simply can't afford a Plexi or they simply can't turn it up!

I also have to agree to a certain extent! But everyone`s ear is different when obtaining the (Brown Sound). I`ve heard some sound clips of guys that claimed they`ve nailed the Brown Sound and quite frankly it doesn`t even come close! I went through all of the experimenting with amp modeling in the begining and of course that didn`t do it. A solid state modeling amp just can`t cut it without tubes In my opinion. So I did exactly as you described! I purchased a Marshall 1971 JMP super lead 100, a TS808 reissue of the original version overdrive, a Boss 7 band EQ a pro hush, a bbe sonic maximizer but I forgot 1 thing... My neighbors !!!LOL.. Then I realized after more research what a THD Hot plate was! And how to run a wet dry sound throught the line out of the hot plate into a delay then into a 50 watt marshall power amp then into another cabinet...wich by the way I changed all of the speakers to the classic 25 watt greenbacks.... Then I got my Brown sound!! It only took 5 years and a few thousand dollars later but now that I have it I feel like a 12 yr old kid at Christmas time whenever I plug in to my rig!! So many guitarist`s were pushing for Marshall to re-release the Hand wired plexi and when they finally did ...I purchased that too! It sounds great ! I even let George Lynch play out of it at a gig in 2004 and he loved it but of course he said it wasn`t as good as his original 68 plexi! I couldn`t hear the difference but then again he`s George Lynch and I`m sure his ear for tone is much better than mine! But your right If you want a certain tone find out exactly what the gear was that was used and save up for it! Granted it may take 5 years to save up for the plexi now that their the price of a new Buick... LOL!! but how bad do you want it? JF...

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

We are all also forgetting the magic of Ted Templemann added to the mix

Also, check Eddie LIVE tones and they are very saturated and different from the albums - so even he went for all kinds of different tones and variations of his own sound.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I have found the hardest thing to get right is the reverb and delay combination. Otherwise I have gotten convincing VH tones from the Dimarzio PAF, PAF Pro and the SD Pearly Gates.

Remember - it's plate verb. Also, sopping wet on one side and pretty dry on the other. I don't remember the delay, but It's a tight slap on ATBL, and more repeat in eruption etc...

 

[Aceman]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

The low-pass filter tone control is really useful for this. It can roll off a lot of the bright harmonic distortion, leaving a clear, smooth, darker tone that's still high-gain.

That's why the CC gets lots of recommendations for a VH pup.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I agree with Christian for the most part- especialy when it comes to the production of the album.

I've been able to get that VH1 tone with my old 1987x, no problem. I've been able to dial it on a 5150 with a Mesa cab (V30s?) too.

I think alot of guys also don't realize (or ignore the fact) most of VH1 was recorded with the Destroyer- it's a totally different sound than a PAF in a superstrat. In addition, the Destroyer was made out of a wood type there is no equivalent for tonally- Japanese Sen (which is not ASH, and doesn't SOUND like ash, despite the grain- dumb americans named it japanese ash, just like dumb americans named white limba, korina)

Hell you can hear the destroyer all over the first 4 albums.

The biggest issue is getting Eddies attack/picking style/vibrato down- and no-one ever will, same with Hendrix, SRV, Page, Malmsteen or any number of legends.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

The biggest issue is getting Eddies attack/picking style/vibrato down.

ha! i just have to beat the crap outta your strings when i tremolo, and have a loose but heavy attack for chords and rhythm, and i'm there:cool2:

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I can see how quickly this could get back into the classic "it's in the hands' v's 'it's all about the gear' debate. To have gotten to play as well as he did, Ed clearly put a lot of hours on the fretboard and probably ended up with a pretty good idea of sounds he liked and wanted to extract from gear, probably along with finding new sounds by experimenting.

I remember hearing 'You Really Got Me' on a cassette in a car when it came out, before that we were all used to hearing and playing The Kinks version, and hearing what this new kid was doing with a guitar blew our heads wide open. I thinnk that then, now and all points in between, some people took it as new ways to open our attitudes and get good and go for it, and many took it as a benchmark to be analysed and cloned.

I bet there are some players who can nail those tones with all sorts of odd equipment, and some who will never sound like Ed even if they had the ACTUAL gear Ed himself used at that point.

Personally i think it's more about the attitude a player brings to the music, how they're gonna rip into it etc, and working with what they have to get the best from it. Maybe earlier in the piece, earlier in the journey of music, people are trying to get 'the sound' simply by playing the notes in a scholarly way and expecting the gear to reproduce or create the sounds. I'm talking largely about 'touch' and the attitude behind the touch.....stuff that takes some time to form and develop.

HAHA!! I just remembered....when i was about 17 (35 years ago, hehe) I got a Marshall 100 Watt stack, (i mean head and 2 quad boxes) and a Fender Strat cos my heroes used that stuff (Jimi, Eric, Ritchie etc.) and guess what? I sounded like a really really REALLY loud bag of sh*t !!

Many years later, i was listening to a tape of a gig i'd played with a couple of friends with great ears. One said to me..."Wow, lovely Strat sound". I thanked him and pointed out that i didn't own a Strat, the guitar i used all night was a stock Les Paul Standard. I guess it sounded like that cos i attacked it like i would a Strat, i dunno.

So....i kinda think.....early in the musical learning experience, we might kinda expect our gear to do everything for us as we are busy coming to grips with an instrument and playing it. As the years roll by, maybe we get more capable and/or confident and the equation shifts somewhat to an area where we can dig more of a style out of the instrument and gear with our heads, hands, hearts and souls, and thus the actual gear becomes somewhat less significant in the equation. I dunno, and i'm sure some may see my thoughts here as contentious. But they are just my humble thoughts.


Rock On

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

I can see how quickly this could get back into the classic "it's in the hands' v's 'it's all about the gear' debate. To have gotten to play as well as he did, Ed clearly put a lot of hours on the fretboard and probably ended up with a pretty good idea of sounds he liked and wanted to extract from gear, probably along with finding new sounds by experimenting.

I remember hearing 'You Really Got Me' on a cassette in a car when it came out, before that we were all used to hearing and playing The Kinks version, and hearing what this new kid was doing with a guitar blew our heads wide open. I thinnk that then, now and all points in between, some people took it as new ways to open our attitudes and get good and go for it, and many took it as a benchmark to be analysed and cloned.

I bet there are some players who can nail those tones with all sorts of odd equipment, and some who will never sound like Ed even if they had the ACTUAL gear Ed himself used at that point.

Personally i think it's more about the attitude a player brings to the music, how they're gonna rip into it etc, and working with what they have to get the best from it. Maybe earlier in the piece, earlier in the journey of music, people are trying to get 'the sound' simply by playing the notes in a scholarly way and expecting the gear to reproduce or create the sounds. I'm talking largely about 'touch' and the attitude behind the touch.....stuff that takes some time to form and develop.

HAHA!! I just remembered....when i was about 17 (35 years ago, hehe) I got a Marshall 100 Watt stack, (i mean head and 2 quad boxes) and a Fender Strat cos my heroes used that stuff (Jimi, Eric, Ritchie etc.) and guess what? I sounded like a really really REALLY loud bag of sh*t !!

Many years later, i was listening to a tape of a gig i'd played with a couple of friends with great ears. One said to me..."Wow, lovely Strat sound". I thanked him and pointed out that i didn't own a Strat, the guitar i used all night was a stock Les Paul Standard. I guess it sounded like that cos i attacked it like i would a Strat, i dunno.

So....i kinda think.....early in the musical learning experience, we might kinda expect our gear to do everything for us as we are busy coming to grips with an instrument and playing it. As the years roll by, maybe we get more capable and/or confident and the equation shifts somewhat to an area where we can dig more of a style out of the instrument and gear with our heads, hands, hearts and souls, and thus the actual gear becomes somewhat less significant in the equation. I dunno, and i'm sure some may see my thoughts here as contentious. But they are just my humble thoughts.


Rock On

i agree with you about the attitude. you just cant get the sound in your head(or whatever album) without bringing the right attitude to the table, and with that attitude comes how you fret and attack. to me, van halen had a very heavy picking hand, but a quick and articulate fretting hand. fortunately for me, that's how my playing has been developing. of course, it really helps to have the right gear. i mean, it would be really wierd to hear someone play van halen style stuff on an acoustic ran through a fuzz into a bass amp. it'd be kinda neat, but it wouldn't be right.

 

[richard parker]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

Being old I remember from years ago guys writing to guitar mags saying 'I've got a Strat, a VoxAC30 and a Watkins Copycat and I still can't get the Hank Marvin sound'. Or 'I've got a Les Paul, Marshall stack and a treble booster and I don't sound like Paul Kossof'. I've heard guys nail the Hank sound with gear that bore no resemblance to anything he ever used. How you play is more important than the gear. If you had the same clubs would you be able to play as good as Tiger Woods ?

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Am I the only one...VH content

Hmmmmm well I'd say the easiest and simplest way to get some of those VH tones is using a Variac.