Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

BigEasyD

New member
Now, concerning replacement pickups……………… Opps, I realize you guys must get bored and frustrated with so many newbie questions which are sometimes very similar. Also, I know the topic of tone is subjective. But everyone’s input is important and certainly appreciated. So, jump in and opine away.


I am looking for a bridge pickup. The music genres (or styles) I intend to use this guitar for: mainly classic rock (or ‘70s and ‘80s hard rock), low gain blues to a lesser degree, and a tad of clean country music.


My guitar (stock DBZ Barchetta FMFR Plus) is described as a “thin profile” mahogany with a moderately thick maple cap. It has an original Floyd with stock (nickel plated brass) block. Both pickups are ceramic magnet and the bridge is really (too) hot. The neck is mahogany with rosewood fretboard. The guitar’s tone, as it is now, I would describe as slightly bright but with a fair amount of sustain. But, instead of getting bogged down with “why” it sounds somewhat bright [maybe due to maple cap, the OFR, the particular type of mahogany wood used, or simply the stock ceramic pickups] I’m far more interested in “how” it might sound with other pups.


Although I am open to all suggestions, I am rather curious about Seymour’s alnico 2 lineup. I have guitars with alnico 5, ceramic magnets and even active pickups – just thinking about something different this time. Some examples are: SH-11, SH-3, SHPG-1, and APH-2
One more thing, the EQ section on Seymour’s tone chart sort of puzzles me. For instance, the CC or SH-11 is assigned an EQ of Bass:3 Mids:7 Treble:7 . Yet the pickup is said to ”tame” bright guitars. Ok, I listened to the pickup and I tend to agree with the EQ numbers (at least thru a dirty amp). I hear strong mids, upper mids, and the treble is certainly present but not ear piercing. IMO a pickup with the above description would seem better suited me in taming or counterbalancing a somewhat dark sounding guitar. So, I need someone to clear me up on this as well.
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

I find Ceramic pickups to be well... bright. My Les Paul came with them and I replaced them with a set of the Slash Alnico II pickups. If your finding the ceramic pickups bright anything in the Alnico II family should warm up your tone quite a bit. Your guitar I would compare (as far as thickness is concerned) similar to an SG and I think either a set of 59's, Alnico II's, or the Slash, and if you really want warmer you could go with a set of Pearly gates or Seths. I think you would be happy with these choices. I have a thinline Tele that is Mahogany and maple capped(Like a LP) and this guitar has a SD Jazz Neck and a 59 bridge. I also have it coil taped using push/pull pots. Its a great sounding guitar even though it has a Tele shape, it really has more of a 335 tone.
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

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I have a thinline Tele that is Mahogany and maple capped(Like a LP) and this guitar has a SD Jazz Neck and a 59 bridge. I also have it coil taped using push/pull pots. Its a great sounding guitar even though it has a Tele shape, it really has more of a 335 tone

Wow, I imagine that is one sweet sounding thinline and capable of covering a lot of ground. I really like the idea of a more classic pickup configuration - Jazz/59. Can't get much better than that. Thanks, for the wealth of options you mentioned Bludave - you've given me a lot to consider and I appreciate that.
 
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Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

So, what exactly is the problem? Are you just trying different pick-ups to experiment? Or is there something specific you'd like to change about the tone you have right now?

I would also mess with the EQ on the amp first before you jump to a conclusion of changing pick-ups. EQ-ing the amp itself makes a much bigger difference. Also, adjusting the pick-up height can change the characteristics of the tone as well.
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

Hi Max. Actually, I am doing something I really enjoy - putting together rigs from pick to loudspeaker. I have big fun searching for gear online, local guitar stores, and even a few pawnshops. Sometimes I buy pre-owned but mostly new and nearly always @ 50%-70% off from retail. I love my hobby much but not at the expense of going hungry or without electricity.

So, this particular little ensemble (pun truly unintended) partly centers around a DBZ Barchetta (mentioned above). It was bought from World Music Supply for $325 including original DBZ hardshell case. Just the case and OFR combined would retail for $300 easily. Well, there is a lot more to the story behind the huge markdown (as some know) but I will not digress further. The stock ceramic pickups seemingly respond well to drop tuning and slam the preamp fairly hard - they are decent for modern metal. However, once you back off from extreme gain then the pickups sound clear, bright and somewhat sterile. The FR trem adds a certain thinness and that's why I am here. My goal is to take this nicely sculpted axe and make it suitable for churning out some classic rock of the 70s and 80s you know - think Doobie Brothers/China Grove, ZZ/Top LaGrange, ACDC/Back in Black, and GNR/Paradise City. Perhaps, even a bit of VH "brown sound" with help from a Wampler Pinnacle, etc. So, that is why I am here. I am looking for a pickup and I think an Alnico 2 pup might work best. But again, all suggestions are welcomed.

I haven't yet mentioned the rest of the sound chain but we can talk guitar cables, amps (Max, this one has a really nice parametric EQ), speaker cabinet and speakers - effects as well. Just trying to keep each post from becoming so wordy
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

the EQ section on Seymour’s tone chart sort of puzzles me.
yeah. it makes pretty much no sense to me either. In the end, its trial and error combined with educated guesswork because every axe and pickup combination is different.

mainly classic rock (or ‘70s and ‘80s hard rock), low gain blues to a lesser degree, and a tad of clean country music.
Doobie Brothers/China Grove, ZZ/Top LaGrange, ACDC/Back in Black, and GNR/Paradise City. Perhaps, even a bit of VH "brown sound" with help from a Wampler Pinnacle, etc.
anyways...check out a pearly gates. If you dont like it, make use of the 21 day returns policy and try something else.
classic rock...tick
low gain blues...tick
country twang...tick (if any humbucker can get close it would be the PGb)
china grove....yeh perfect
la grange...duh! lol
gnr...pretty close in a lot of respects to the APH that was used on that record
VH...slightly overwound paf with plenty of harmonics....tick

re; your neck pickup....if your finances allow it, replace that too. A calibrated set of pickups is a sweet thing indeed and often a nice pair ends up being greater than the sum of its parts.
 
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Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

Agree with the pearly gates, but I would also look into the Custom Custom to help thicken up your sound a bit, and is pretty much perfect for all those styles. As far as necks go, a 59 would be good as well.
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

@Gibson175 thanks for wading through all the peripheral "stuff" and breaking it down. Everything you've stated sort of validates my own thoughts and preferences. I'm new to the forum but not exactly a new customer. Yet with over 7,000 posts I trust you have far more experience with SD pickups. Guys like you and Max are the reason I joined this forum.

PG is versatile when used for most classic rock

APH = Slash (at least early GNR stuff)

CC (or other PAF types med. output) = EVH (early VH) Some interesting stories (perhaps factual?) about this pup and "the brown sound"

Also, great point concerning "calibrated sets". I sometimes forget (as perhaps others) the advantages of these sets. Balanced output can save you from riding the volume knob when switching pups. I've heard a few "mismatched sets" and its not a tone to be coveted. Years ago, this guy at local GC told me "mainly young kids fall for that sales gimmick and it's as old as the hills" I rarely visit GC these days.

The tone chart... FAQ section says " By combining the DC resistance with the magnet type and resonant frequency of a pickup you can get a very good idea of how it will perform and sound, and the Tone Chart makes it very easy to compare one pickup to another. Please keep in mind that these are all generalizations". I like that part about generalizations - priceless. But, there's no mention of the EQ section here.
So, my question is how are the EQ numbers determined? There's more I would like to go into about the TC but for now it can wait.
 
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Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

One more thing, the EQ section on Seymour’s tone chart sort of puzzles me. For instance, the CC or SH-11 is assigned an EQ of Bass:3 Mids:7 Treble:7 . Yet the pickup is said to ”tame” bright guitars. Ok, I listened to the pickup and I tend to agree with the EQ numbers (at least thru a dirty amp). I hear strong mids, upper mids, and the treble is certainly present but not ear piercing. IMO a pickup with the above description would seem better suited me in taming or counterbalancing a somewhat dark sounding guitar. So, I need someone to clear me up on this as well.

First of all, welcome to the UGF.

I'm the guy that wrote that description about the Custom Custom taming bright guitars. And here's why. The moderate-high DCR of that pickup will push it's resonant peak towards lower frequencies. And the alnico 2 magnet has a softer attack character, which has the effect of sounding warmer. Both of those together can be used to balance an otherwise bright sounding guitar. That's why the Custom Custom is great in bright guitars like ones with thick maple tops and maple or ebony fingerboards.

With regard to the EQ numbers, those are subjective approximations by SD's "good ears" team. They're not objective and they're colored to a degree by the guitar(s) they were in for evaluation, the amps they were played through, etc. They're a best guess effort at providing a quantitative description of the EQ. My suggestion is to take the EQ score together with the DCR, magnet type, written descriptions, sound bytes, and demo videos--to determine the sound of a pickup. And if you're in the USA, you can buy the pickup and try it for up to three weeks in your guitar and if you're not 100% satisfied, you can return it, either to your store or direct to SD, for full credit towards another SD pickup.

I hope that helps.
 
Re: Another Newbie Searching for Wisdom

What's this? People actually helping people on this forum -including admins ? Almost unheard of. Evan, I'm proud I joined.

Yeah, after reading something I found in the FAQ (mentioned above) I gained a better understanding of the tone chart. Your explanation shines even more light on it. I value your response.

No doubt, as you suggest the EQ section itself is the most "subjective" component of the TC -and how could it be otherwise? But after going back to your description on the product page ( Products > Electric > Humbucker > All > Medium Output> Custom Custom ) I found something that helps me understand how a pickup [SH-11] EQ of 3/7/7 can be considered warm enough to "tame bright guitars." As you state the "Alnico 2 magnet" produces "warm and smooth highs." Therefore, although the pup produces strong mids (7) and strong highs (7) they are nevertheless warm sounding mids and highs.
 
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