Another permanent coil tap question please

S

SJ318

New member
Hello,
Last month I asked how to permanently coil tap a hybrid 59/Custom 9K slug coil in the neck position. Itsabass was kind enough to tell me how to do it either way, in the control cavity or the pickup itself. I used the pickup cavity as I had already removed the screw coil. It sounds wonderful to me. When used with my bridge humbucker together it sounds fantastic. Alone, the coil slug sounds wonderful in the neck. Very clean, rounded yet with enough high end to cover an almost acoustic sound. I prefer using the pickup cavity.
I have an old JB that is too strong for me, but the SCREW coil measures around 8K and I would like to do the same with it. I have removed the SLUG coil and the SCREW coil is all that is left. It also has one black and one white wire coming out of it like my hybrid slug coil. So - I am assuming I just treat it the same as my slug coil? Black to + and white to - (bare) to ground, tape up green and red out of the way? I THANK YOU ALL for helping me last time. Seriously.
Steve Buffington
 
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Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

The screw coil is red/green. So, red to + and green/bare to ground.

Wait a sec. Just reread that. You removed the slug coil, and you have black & white left? That's backwards, but I have heard of some old JB's wired backwards.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

ArtieToo,
Yes, just the black and white wire are left coming out of the screw coil. Same as my Hybrid screw coil. In the old JB they went white to red and black to green wires, which I removed. It IS an OLD JB, before I realized they were way too strong, and did not clean up at all, so I have a couple sitting around from many, many years ago. I started using only Seth Lovers since, with a mag swap. And lately 2 WLH's also. So do I wire it up in the manner I described? It is all I need to know, Please.
Thank You,
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Well,
it seems no one wants to answer. I suppose I'll just try it a few ways till I get it correct and in "phase", if that is the correct word.
Thanks anyway.
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

The coil wires are terminated by black and white wires for both slug and screw. Its only once the 4-conductor is added that red and green come into it. So if Steve has no conductor cable in the mix yet, then this would be accurate. Otherwise there is something odd going on in the hookup side of things.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

AlexR-
So then screw black is positive and screw white is negative. The white wire going to the bare wire which will in turn be soldered to the ground in the electronics cavity as it is now, and as the black positive is now also. The green and red wires are not connected to anything. So that should do it, eh? It'll buzz like a single coil too but that is to be expected.
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

If the lead wire is hooked up properly (i.e. the same way it is on your other pickup), then the two wire colors that you didn't use to wire up the other pickup are the two that you should use.

If you have pulled the slug coil, then you can easily test for continuity to find which two colors to use. Once you know whether your humbucker's lead wires are hooked up the same way as your other pickup, then you can just look at the Duncan color chart to see which should be + and which should be -.

Don't forget your bare wire. It will connect along with the - wire.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

ItsaBass,
I am connecting it to my old Les Paul, that coming from the control cavity just has a braided regular lead. So.. use the black from the screw coil as the positive, and the white connected to the bare as the -(ground)? The color charts I've found show the colors but say Start, finish, north, south, and I don't understand those terms, I don't know which means positive or negative. I know I sound stupid, but I never used or paid attention to anything other than (in a four conductor cable) than to just use black to positive and bare&green to ground. Then just taped off the red and green in the pickup cavity like the instructions said. I am using the four conductor cable in the pickup itself as it is already there and the wires are convenient to get at. Please be patient with me. As I said - I know I sound ignorant, but I am very old school and always connected to the regular type of braid. Except for four conductor humbucker in a Strat, but those instructions are pretty obvious, when using it regular, no splitting ever.
I've never used a push-pull and do not want one. So a strong single coil in the neck is all I'm after. It sounds great to me. Better than a Strat for what I use it for in a non-strat set-up.
Steve
 
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Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

ItsaBass -
All I need to learn is how to connect my SCREW slug to a braided Gibson style lead, and I'll be golden.
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Solder hot coil lead to center wire of the old-school Gibson cable, and insulate the joint. Solder cold coil wire to top of baseplate. Solder the braided shield to bottom of baseplate.
 
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Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

I think for the screw coil that white is the hot and black the ground.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Hey Steve. This is one of those situations where you really need a DMM. Even a cheap one. I snagged one once at Harbor Freight for $3, just to have as a portable "throw-away." Anyway, if you get one, the definitive way to determine a pups polarity, especially when you have non-standard wires, is to connect the meter to the leads. Doesn't matter which way. Put the meter on its lowest DC Volts range. (Or, just DC Volts, if it's auto-ranging.) Now bring a screwdriver up against the poles. Note if you get a small reading either positive or negative. Now yank the screwdriver away. You'll get an opposite voltage spike. If you get a positive voltage when yanked away, then the black lead is your "hot" wire and the red lead is ground. If you get a negative voltage when you yank the screwdriver away, then the red lead is the "hot" wire. Standard Duncan pups create a negative voltage when the screwdriver is yanked away from the poles.

This is the only true way to determine the polarity of an unknown pickup. Besides wiring everything up and seeing if something is out of phase, which is a PITA after the fact.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

ItsaBass, Alexr -
Thanks. That sounds as easy as it should be. Makes sense. I'll try white first.
ArtiToo - Again - hate to sound dumb, but do you mean Digital Multi Meter? I have one of those and use it to check K reading often. I suspect that must be why you mean. So then the only question is whether the black or white is the hot lead. Are there any schematics that use words like positive/negative, as opposed to Start finish? All I can find is, like I said, north, south, start, etc.
I still have one hybrid left intact, I'll try to reverse engineer it and see if white or black makes sense as the hot lead from the screw coil.
Thanks to you all, ArtieToo, ItsaBass and AlexR,
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Yes. DMM = digital multimeter.

Use the technique I described to establish "hot". Again, place the meter leads on black & white wires. Doesn't matter which lead goes where, but I'd start with red meter lead on white and black on black. Put the meter on its lowest "DC Volts" range. Bring a screw driver up against the pole pieces as you watch the meter. You'll get a quick spike. Then yank it away. Do it a few times. Watch for the little "minus" sign to appear. If you get the minus when you yank away, (ahem, the screwdriver), then the red lead is on your hot wire and the other is ground. If you don't get the minus sign when you pull the screwdriver away, then black is your hot lead and white is ground.

Make sense?

Artie
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

ArtieToo,
Makes sense, wish I could get just a simple yes or no on the matter of which is which, I tried call ing the Seymour "Help" line, but as it was when I joined 8 years ago, "Help" means "stay on hold till you have to pee or hang up in frustration as it's dinner time". Very frustrating. I've called the custom shop many times for special orders in the past, used ext. 1009 to get MJ, but the line goes dead when I try that now. Equally frustrating when I think of all the money I've spent through the years for SD products. Operator now goes to voicemail, equally frustrating.
Thanks ArtieToo
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

AlexR, ArtieToo -
Yes, the red wire is connected to the white SCREW coil wire, and on the schematics, it says the red goes to hot for SCREW coil tap. Ergo, the white is hot for the SCREW coil. Man, I searched all the SD sites on wiring and they all use color codes for start/finish/stop/start, but not one say white or black is hot or ground when it comes to the coil wires. Such
an easy thing to ask or know. It would sure make it simple for someone like me with limited knowledge.
Thanks to the Forum,
Steve
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Steve; The problem is, you have a potentially a mis-wired pup from the factory. It's better to have a definitive answer that you ascertain, than a yes, no, or maybe, from tech support that's guessing. Since you own a meter, the answer is at your fingertips in a minute or two. ;)
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Steve.....the thing is that of course it depends on what else is in the guitar that the pickup has to play nice against.

If you want to change the split in a regular humbucker to the screw coil, you have to reverse the location of every wire if you want it to play nice with other pickups.
Then if you get a situation like yours where we are not sure about what has been done to the pickup at the factory - well you have a situation where there are no neat absolutes (that you seem to want).

We could give you a nice neat guess......but thats just not going to help.
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

AlexR, ArtieToo -
Your info has been very useful. I understand what you said, it makes sense, and I will do as you guys suggest. You guys are aces.
Thank you so much.
Steve buffington. (really, really liking that hybrid slug 9K coil split you guys helped me with last month)
 
Re: Another permanent coil tap question please

Hey Steve, you've been around long enough to know the difference between "tap" and "split".

Like the others have said, we'd love to be able to give you a simple straight forward answer as far as + or - is concerned, but there just isn't one. There IS a definitive start and finish wire which is constant, but which wire is + or - depends on how you wire it into the circuit, and that changes. Typically on a Duncan humbucker the green is - and the black is +, but if you want that pup wired out of phase with another pup then the black would be - and the green would be +. In both cases the green wire is still the start wire. "Start" means that it is the wire that begins the winding on the coil so it will be on the inside of the wind. Therefore the "finish" wire would end up on the top of the wind. (I hope I didn't just make it even more confusing). The "start" wire can be used as either the - (ground) or + (hot/lead) depending on what you want to accomplish in your particular circuit.
 
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